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The world was not a better place because of Saddam Hussein. If anything he made it a far meaner and nastier place at least for Iraqis. He was a cruel and evil tyrant who terrorized his people.
However, what he did make the world, of all the ironies, is safer from International Terrorism and thus safer for the West. Muslim Fundamentalists hated him and he hated them and he did all he could to repress them. He was a bulwark against Iranian influence as well. He was a US ally before the Kuwaiti invasion and did nothing to the US or the American people to deserve getting forcibly removed from power. The removal of Saddam Hussein should have been left to the self determination of the Iraqi people.
The world was not a better place because of Saddam Hussein. If anything he made it a far meaner and nastier place at least for Iraqis. He was a cruel and evil tyrant who terrorized his people.
However, what he did make the world, of all the ironies, is safer from International Terrorism and thus safer for the West. Muslim Fundamentalists hated him and he hated them and he did all he could to repress them. He was a bulwark against Iranian influence as well. He was a US ally before the Kuwaiti invasion and did nothing to the US or the American people to deserve getting forcibly removed from power. The removal of Saddam Hussein should have been left to the self determination of the Iraqi people.
There is the uzbek tyrant in Uzbekistan - Islam Karimov. But! Do you think that overthrowing him would be good? Islamic extremists hate him and they would be first who overthrow I. Karimov. And there will be a new islamic halifat in Uzbekistan. And this will be way worse than I. Karimov's tyranny.
A good idea was mentioned here in this thread - some nations are just not ready for democracy. Don't try to liberate people if they don't want to be liberated. Moreover, each nation must liberate itself by itself.
Saddam Hussein stood between the Greedsters and the Iraqi oil. They had him (thank you Mr. Bush) killed for his audacity. What will they do when the Islamic extremists seize power and renationalize the oil fields? Send another American army to retrieve them? Only if we elect a Bush clone or Kristian fanatic.
As crazy as that sounds . ISIL now claims to be the leading governing body of all Muslims world wide. This is why the US needs to stay the hell out of eveveryone's business. Blow back from our meddling is completely unpredictable as has been repeatedly shown from our long history of mistakes in Latin America, the results of subverting the Iraian democracy in 1953 by the CIA, and now the legacy left behind by George Bush in Iraq which has now produced a militant Islamic group more dangerous now than All qaeda. If Saddam were around at least Iraq would probably still have some semblance of order and government instead of complete anarchy that has allowed ISIL to sweep through with impunity.
I agree with everything you said; however, you can't put Iraq on just the shoulders of Bush alone. We all know that PRIOR to Bush coming to office, President Clinton and most leading Democrats were constantly banging the drums of war telling us about the WMDs, WMD programs, nuclear ambitions and how Iraq was the biggest threat to world peace. Sure, Bush was responsible for invading Iraq as the leader of the government which made the decision to do so. This was a US government mistake.
Saddam Hussein stood between the Greedsters and the Iraqi oil. They had him (thank you Mr. Bush) killed for his audacity. What will they do when the Islamic extremists seize power and renationalize the oil fields? Send another American army to retrieve them? Only if we elect a Bush clone or Kristian fanatic.
Did you forget that Hillary Clinton's vote? Did you forget what President Clinton told us over and over about Iraq, WMDs, nuclear ambitions, etc?
Don't be a liberal "I want my team to win" fanatic, please.
Most of the borders in the Middle East are sectarian nonsense from the 1920s. "Kurdistan" such as it is, actually compromises an area that includes Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Azerbaijan and Armenia. The Syria-Iraq border south of Kurdistan is culturally homogeneous going back maybe 3,000 years, with that culture having virtually nothing to do with what British map makers and UN morons call Syria and Iraq. Etc, etc.
The rest of the "civilized" world has no freaking clue what the actual regional cultural boundaries are in the Middle East. They never have, and they never will. The reason people think it was "better" under Hussein is because it was more tidy, and out of sight, out of mind. He and his sons dropped people feet first into plastic shredder machines if they spoke poorly of dear leader. He and his sons had rape/torture centers to "educate" folks on what it means to be an Iraqi citizen. The Ba'ath regime oppressed Shi'a and Sunni alike, were genocidal to the Kurds in the north, and an ever present threat to Kuwait. We didn't mind it then because as long as one Arabic looking nutbag was doing bad things to other Arabic looking nutbags...why should an American think twice about it? But people saying "it was better" have a really bizarre definition of "better" and really need to add some context.
Does anyone really think the average Iraqi living in Fallujah is sitting there right now thinking the ISIS theocratic oppression is so much worse than Hussein's secular Baathist oppression? Sure, their wife was raped and murdered, but they would have preferred it was done by a secular dictator than a religious fanatic. No, the average Iraqi living in Fallujah would probably prefer no oppression at all. Thing is, the average Iraqi in Fallujah, going back 100 years, has never once been asked en masse with whom they most identify as actual "neighbor." They've had cultural mandates forced on them at gunpoint, and when they disagree, they either get dropped in the shredder, shot with an AK47, or herded into some American/UN holding pen like freaking livestock...for their own good of course.
All we want is the kids to quiet down and not annoy the grown ups in the other room who are busy divvying up their land, oil, etc while giving them no say in the matter. Oddly enough, we (everyone) gives them guns and bullets to play with before we tell them to go play quietly, we never ponder whether some of the kids in the group get along with each other before we jam them into the same playgroup with their AKs and lots of ammo, and then we act freaking surprised when the kids get a tad unruly and start using those AKs for the purpose Kalishnikov intended.
Things were not better under Hussein. Not for anyone outside the Ba'ath regime. Things were horrible, just in a slightly different way for the average Iraqi, and maybe more economically for the US and NATO. But things still sucked. You don't have cheering crowds of people going batcrap crazy to tear down a Hussein statue in Baghdad because the guy and his sons were so well thought of. It was just easier for Americans to ignore Iraq when Hussein was in charge. That's it, that's all.
I don't claim to be an expert on ME issues, but everything you listed here is as I understand it too, especially the large parts of the ME being divided up over time, starting way back after WWI and more so after WWII.
Sadam wasn't a better leader, but as you put it, the area was just a little calmer, at least to much of the western world.
I may be a Liberal on most social considerations but I never believed either of the Clintons were nothing more then liberal pretenders. They were and are opportunists that will support whatever their financiers want. They had the same backers as Bush. The result is we are in a hideous version of the "Forever War" that makes a few very wealthy and many, many dead.
What I want is a government that stays out of my business by allowing an individual the right to do what they want with their own bodies including aborting a fetus if that is they want, keeps the government and business separate from religion and realized our primary threat and largest enemy is China not some half assed dictator or Islamic fanatic in the Middle East.
I want a government that is beholden to the voters of this country and not to the political contributors and their PACS. I want a government that supports the unfortunate by subsidizing food, housing and education but does not waste money on excess military spending or free grazing for rich ranchers. I want a government that is impartial, fair and frugal.
Given the current corporate and plutocratic owners of our government I expect to keep wanting.
I may be a Liberal on most social considerations but I never believed either of the Clintons were nothing more then liberal pretenders. They were and are opportunists that will support whatever their financiers want. They had the same backers as Bush. The result is we are in a hideous version of the "Forever War" that makes a few very wealthy and many, many dead.
What I want is a government that stays out of my business by allowing an individual the right to do what they want with their own bodies including aborting a fetus if that is they want, keeps the government and business separate from religion and realized our primary threat and largest enemy is China not some half assed dictator or Islamic fanatic in the Middle East.
I want a government that is beholden to the voters of this country and not to the political contributors and their PACS. I want a government that supports the unfortunate by subsidizing food, housing and education but does not waste money on excess military spending or free grazing for rich ranchers. I want a government that is impartial, fair and frugal.
Given the current corporate and plutocratic owners of our government I expect to keep wanting.
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