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Old 07-03-2014, 05:26 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
If so, prove it buddy (since you obviously lack a sense of humor, lol).

How do IUDs at so much as $5,000 a pop even begin to supercede the cost of the offspring that will be produced?
IUD's are nowhere near $5000 unless you live in Beverly Hills or something similar.

How much does an IUD cost? | Planned Parenthood

I never questioned the cost of offspring, just that Hobby Lobby wouldn't pay for the monthly pills.

Quote:
IUDs have also proven to have been dangerous in the past, leading to a lot of liablity claims.
Good thing H.L. doesn't cover them then.
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:27 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
And the President didn't. ACA was passed by Congress and signed by the President.
And changed by who knows how many since then. The courts are getting to that.
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:31 PM
 
23,654 posts, read 17,511,041 times
Reputation: 7472
Default Priests for life comment on Hobby Lobby---


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAU46l4Uml0

Father Pavone
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:36 PM
 
23,654 posts, read 17,511,041 times
Reputation: 7472
Default the owner of this web site that has this pic tells his viewers to share everything he posts

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Old 07-03-2014, 05:52 PM
 
11,186 posts, read 6,507,037 times
Reputation: 4622
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
This is not a 1st Amendment case. Nothing was ruled unconstitutional in Hobby Lobby.



And the President didn't. ACA was passed by Congress and signed by the President.



They did not use a 1st Amendment claim before the Supreme Court, because there is no such claim. I am not familiar with their cases below.

Justice Ginsberg reasoning is more thorough and thoughtful than the majority's. It is also much more limited. The majority is "legislating from the bench" in this case. It rewrote RFRA in order to rewrite the ACA.
The HL owners did raise a 1st Amendment claim. Because they won on the RFRA claim, the majority found it unnecessary to address that claim. See the next to last paragraph of the majority decision. It is Ginsberg's opinion that the owners would lose the 1st Amendment argument. Considering she is wrong on the RFRA, your reliance on her isn't too persuasive.

It is obviously your opinion that the majority legislated from the bench. It's my opinion that's what happened in the case re the individual mandate.
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:17 PM
 
3,569 posts, read 2,520,942 times
Reputation: 2290
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Justice Ginsberg tried to lay out the history of RFRA so that she could construe the law as written to mean something else. The Opinion of the Court made that very clear. It was the dissenters who tried "legislating from the bench" in this case.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions...3-354_olp1.pdf

I'm not really sure why you're using doublespeak to try and project something that never happened but it's clear to everyone who was trying to twist the way RFRA was written into something that they meant to write but failed to do so.
She did lay out the history of RFRA, and construed it as it was written, properly deferring to the judgment of Congress. Look at the dissent from pages 8-12, "as RFRA’s statements of purpose and legislative
history make clear, Congress intended only to restore, not to scrap or alter, the balancing test as this Court had applied it pre-Smith."

The majority takes an unsupported stance in this case. It dramatically expands RFRA to cover for-profit corporations, that for-profit corporations are capable of exercising religion, to dramatically depart from pre-Smith 1st Amendment caselaw, and to require religious exemption from regulations when a court can think of a less restrictive regulation, even if the exemption disadvantages other people who are the intended beneficiaries of the regulation.
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:23 PM
 
3,569 posts, read 2,520,942 times
Reputation: 2290
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
The HL owners did raise a 1st Amendment claim. Because they won on the RFRA claim, the majority found it unnecessary to address that claim. See the next to last paragraph of the majority decision. It is Ginsberg's opinion that the owners would lose the 1st Amendment argument. Considering she is wrong on the RFRA, your reliance on her isn't too persuasive.

It is obviously your opinion that the majority legislated from the bench. It's my opinion that's what happened in the case re the individual mandate.
You are right about them raising the 1st, thanks for pointing that out--I missed it. But it would be a departure from 1st Amendment case law for them to win on that issue. I disagree that she is wrong on RFRA. Think about the new layer of bureaucracy that will be necessary to weigh and create RFRA exemptions to generally applicable laws. Do you really think that is what Congress intended?

Do you really think that Congress intended to depart from the 1st Amendment and create a whole new entitlement with RFRA? Why hasn't anyone relied on that entitlement until the ACA?
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:40 PM
PJA
 
2,462 posts, read 3,176,740 times
Reputation: 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Middling Swordsman View Post
Mistakes happen. The question is not about frequency, but about one's right to choose for themselves free of religious pressure.

EDIT: Also, the morning-after pill is not abortive.

What religious pressure? No one from Hobby Lobby is going to be standing outside of a doctors office trying to pressure their employees into not taking a pill.
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:12 PM
 
139 posts, read 85,617 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJA View Post
What religious pressure? No one from Hobby Lobby is going to be standing outside of a doctors office trying to pressure their employees into not taking a pill.
No, but they are content to dictate the terms of their employees' health care insurance on a religious basis, even though emergency contraception is not abortive. Ergo, what's the point?
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,418,303 times
Reputation: 4190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Middling Swordsman View Post
No, but they are content to dictate the terms of their employees' health care insurance on a religious basis, even though emergency contraception is not abortive. Ergo, what's the point?
It was actually HHS who attempted to dictate HL's insurance plan which had been in place for years without a single complaint.
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