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Old 07-13-2014, 09:13 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,800,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
This might sound pithy to you on a message board but its not going to in court.



Any policy goes out the window when you are sued. You have to legally save everything.



That certainly depends on where the trail ends doesn't it? It depends on who decided to trample on the civil rights here doesn't it?
Actually all the IRS/DoJ, WH has to do is turn on the email. What 50 million a day? 100 million? In a week the plaintiff sues for relief as his site is no longer functional.

there is no rational way any plaintiff could absorb the flow for more than a few hours.
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:35 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
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Really irrelevant. Its illegal to destroy evidence. The IRS doesn't get to decide what is valid and what isn't.

its amazing that we are now to the point where people will try to defend the destruction of evidence.
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:42 PM
 
27,139 posts, read 15,313,785 times
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Doesn't the NSA have a copy of them?
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Really irrelevant. Its illegal to destroy evidence. The IRS doesn't get to decide what is valid and what isn't.

its amazing that we are now to the point where people will try to defend the destruction of evidence.
Actually it does. It has to keep operating. And actually I think it is pretty well safe on the time period based on there is no legal correspondence on the hard disks. We will see how it plays out. But I do not think the courts can force a government agency to shut down to protect communications.
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Old 07-14-2014, 12:57 AM
 
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Lol.....I'm glad we have an expert on what is on irs hard drives in our midst. We should be honored.
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Old 07-14-2014, 05:32 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,045,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Actually all the IRS/DoJ, WH has to do is turn on the email. What 50 million a day? 100 million? In a week the plaintiff sues for relief as his site is no longer functional.

there is no rational way any plaintiff could absorb the flow for more than a few hours.
Again had they implemented a policy of not purging the emails from the server before backing up and keeping the tapes these emails could have easily been preserved for very little money or effort. They are more than half way there becsue they already had a backup plan in place.

Server is running out of space? Time to purge the moved emails so we'll set aside today's backup, make a copy and set both aside instead of recycling the tapes. Not ideal becsue recovery can be cumbersome, corruption of data is not fully accounted for and not easily accessible..... but it's better than nothing.
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Old 07-14-2014, 05:39 AM
 
59,040 posts, read 27,298,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Actually I believe the hard drive was wiped and reissued. The destruction is virtual..but real.
“We’ve been informed that the hard drive has been thrown away,” Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, the top Republican on the Finance Committee, said in a brief hallway interview."

""So then, after that what did you do with the hard drive"

Answer: I destroyed it. The last I checked "destroyed" is NOT "reissued".
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
“We’ve been informed that the hard drive has been thrown away,” Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, the top Republican on the Finance Committee, said in a brief hallway interview."

""So then, after that what did you do with the hard drive"

Answer: I destroyed it. The last I checked "destroyed" is NOT "reissued".
The wording from the IRS was "recycled". Whatever that means...

GOP fury after report claims IRS 'recycled' Lerner hard drive | Fox News

IRS Recycled Lerner Hard Drive - Slashdot

Sources: Lois Lerner?s emails likely gone forever - Rachael Bade - POLITICO.com
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:49 AM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,800,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Again had they implemented a policy of not purging the emails from the server before backing up and keeping the tapes these emails could have easily been preserved for very little money or effort. They are more than half way there becsue they already had a backup plan in place.

Server is running out of space? Time to purge the moved emails so we'll set aside today's backup, make a copy and set both aside instead of recycling the tapes. Not ideal becsue recovery can be cumbersome, corruption of data is not fully accounted for and not easily accessible..... but it's better than nothing.
The IRS policy was apparently that emails were not to be used to store "official" documents. All "offical" documents were to be copied and stored as paper. Early on that probably made good sense. But they should have changed over somewhere along the line. But they did not. Do big corporations actually store their spam files?

Here is an exert from the Smithsonian Document Retention & Dispositon Guidelines

**************************

Category 3 – Records of little or no long‐term value (Examples, not all inclusive)
Retain: 0‐30 days or until no longer needed for reference

- Calendars (except for key executives)

- Copies of documents when the holder is not the official record keeper, sender, or
primary addressee

- Copies of publications or other published reference materials

- Drafts, except for mission critical documents, program and policy changes, or
original creative, artistic, and scientific works

- Informational, e.g. holiday closings, charitable drives, notifications of meetings

- Junk and SPAM mail, whether received via e‐mail, fax, or traditional mail

- Messages to/from distribution lists (e.g. ListServs)

- Personal correspondence, e‐mail, text messages, etc.

- Routine requests for information or publications and replies

- Scheduling of work assignments, work‐related trips and visits

- Suspense files or ‘to‐do’ and task lists that serve as a reminder that an action is
required or a reply expected on a given date

*******************************

I would think that the IRS has similar document classes. You basically have to do this to avoid being inundated in SPAM. That would suggest there is a sorting process at the IRS or virtually anywhere.

Last edited by lvoc; 07-14-2014 at 09:01 AM..
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:57 AM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,800,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfyjsdty View Post
Being in IT for over 40 years I find "the emails are gone" absolutely ludicrous.
Having been in it for almost 50 years I disagree. Anything can be lost.
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