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Of course people don't use that phrasing. They use more agreeable terms, like "fairness". They say it's not "fair" what's happening to these people. In the end, I have no choice. I'm forced to contribute through the use of tax money. Why should I even bother making smart choices if the government is just going fix everything?
I don't think it matters whether it's fair or not. As others have pointed out, it's not only the people who are being foreclosed on because they overextended themselves who are being hurt by the mortgage crisis. Prospective buyers are finding it tougher to find loans, homeowners who did everything right and stayed within their means but who have to move because of job transfers or other reasons are having difficulty selling their homes, and so on. While it sounds good saying it's a buyers' market, the reality is that a stable housing market is what's best for the economy, and the government's efforts to stabilize the market will benefit us all in the end. Pointing fingers and feeling superior might bring some personal satisfaction in the short run, but we're in this all together for the long haul.
DC
PS, I was under the impression that the government was trying to get private mortgage companies to bear this burden, and that so far tax dollars are not involved in the plan. But perhaps this has changed...
PS, I was under the impression that the government was trying to get private mortgage companies to bear this burden, and that so far tax dollars are not involved in the plan. But perhaps this has changed...
From my understanding yes, private mortgage companies are supposed to bear this burden, but ony to the point that they have to move these loans into confirming loans, then they would be packaged to Fanni Mae (govt branches) to be bought up. I havent read the full plan in detail so I could be incorrect and if I am incorrect, I hope someone here corrects me.
Pointing fingers and feeling superior might bring some personal satisfaction in the short run, but we're in this all together for the long haul.
Assigning motivation I see.
Quote:
PS, I was under the impression that the government was trying to get private mortgage companies to bear this burden, and that so far tax dollars are not involved in the plan. But perhaps this has changed...
That's not what's happening everywhere. Check out Ohio.
How does one get "tricked" when signing loan documents? I mean, did they not have an opportunity to learn what they were getting into before they signed? Where they not allowed to read what they were signing their name to? At what point does an adult need to take responsibility for their poor decisions, instead of looking for a scapegoat? What is "otherwise good credit" btw? Is that like - can't get a real mortgage, but otherwise has good enough credit with the subprime lenders?
Ah, yes. The ignorant, ill-informed, uneducated borrowers should have known that they were getting into inappropriate loans. But implicit in your statement is that the lenders knew that these were inappropriate loans, too.
When home values and prices were climbing by tens of percents a year and people were buying up two or more homes to flip for a profit, was I the only one that foresaw the whole market correcting its self and the bubble poping?!? Seriously, did everyone think it would go on that way forever? They have to have knowed that something had to give sooner or later, it always does with someting like that. We dont ever seem to learn from the past. I say people are dumb.
I am tired of hearing all this boo-hoo nonsense about how people got hoodwinked by evil mortgage lenders. Borrowers need to know how much they can borrow...period. Do the math people. If you only make x-amount a year you CANNOT afford a 500K house with no money down (cf. the Times story today 12/17 about poor Marcia).
Now these people are losing houses they couldn't afford in the first place, and they are negatively affecting other people's money by influencing the stock market to dive and driving down existing home prices. These people are just plain dumb. And their stupidity is a bane to everyone's economic future.
If they had scaled back and bought, say, a 200K apt with 20% down instead of a 500K house w/ no money down, there wouldn't be such a monstrous economic calamity on the horizon. Does anybody else feel this way? Is the sympathy for these people who foolishly overextended themselves never going to run dry?
You're absolutely right and I'm with you 100%. What you are saying is based on reason and economic fundamentals. It shows common sense and responsibility. It also complies with moral responsibility. It makes good business sense too.
All that and 1.95 cents will get you a cup of coffee in America nowadays.
We're obsolete today, you and I. We're people who rely on reason while the other 99% of the population relies on FOX News. We're usually savers; that means there's probably about 10 of us in the whole country and no politician will waste time catering to the needs of just 10 people. We remember history and the previous actions of politicians while the people around us have the memory span of a 5 year old. A five year old on pot that is.
We didn't put ourselves into $700K homes on $35K a year salaries and yet we'll have to pony-up somehow someway eventually to help out the irresponsible who did.
That's because we're not only obsolete. We're suckers too. But at least we know what we are. The other 99% also get reamed and never even feel a thing. Nothing like knowing we're all going down the tubes together.
You're absolutely right and I'm with you 100%. What you are saying is based on reason and economic fundamentals. It shows common sense and responsibility. It also complies with moral responsibility. It makes good business sense too.
All that and 1.95 cents will get you a cup of coffee in America nowadays.
We're obsolete today, you and I. We're people who rely on reason while the other 99% of the population relies on FOX News. We're usually savers; that means there's probably about 10 of us in the whole country and no politician will waste time catering to the needs of just 10 people. We remember history and the previous actions of politicians while the people around us have the memory span of a 5 year old. A five year old on pot that is.
We didn't put ourselves into $700K homes on $35K a year salaries and yet we'll have to pony-up somehow someway eventually to help out the irresponsible who did.
That's because we're not only obsolete. We're suckers too. But at least we know what we are. The other 99% also get reamed and never even feel a thing. Nothing like knowing we're all going down the tubes together.
What the heck? Tell me what FOX news has to do with this? Correct me if I'm wrong, but "Republicans" are supposed to have money, and its the "Republicans" that watch FOX news, and since I'm Republican, and I watch FOX news, and I agree with individual responsibilities, and people living within their means. Your statement would have been fine except for the Blame FOX? Please explain
The subprime mess is a contagion to the whole banking system. Financial stocks are key components to most pension plans, personal stock portfolios, etc. Now because too many sketchy loans were written, especially without a fair amount of owner equity, the vast majority of middle-income earners have to suffer needlessly.
This problem could have been largely avoided if more mortgages were held in house and banks and other financial institutions managed a balanced portfolio of loans. However as mortgages became largely tradeable commodities there became a greater incentive to pass off the "hot potatoes" as quickly as possible so you don't get burned. Little did we know that there were so many "hot potatoes" accumulating at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Oh, by the way, Fannie and Freddie are now traded on the NYSE so they better play the game too.
So what are you proposing.. First people make $45K a year, but adaquate housing, according to you isnt available..
Can I suggest RENT?
pghquest, I don't know where you are from, but I can surely tell you aren't from the NYC area. This thread originated in the NYC forum and was referring to the NYC subprime crisis. So my original post was in reference to that and should only be looked at in that context. Also, this thread was a spinoff of other NYC real estate threads, so please remember that.
Given that context, yes most people do rent here in NYC. We weren't talking about renters, however. We were talking about ownership in NYC where both the rental rates and the housing price rates are at astronomical highs. Add to that the low availability of affordable housing (both rentals and homes) and you have a true financial bind for any person making 35k or 45k to rent or own.
In other states you can rent an apartment, 1-3 bedrooms for under 1000 a month. Where I'm from, studios start at 900-1500 a month. And these are rentals. When rent is that high, it may seem more affordable to own, but with high housing cost and subprime loans, this market was ripe to get people.
My point is that people went for these loans because renting was becoming too high. And when someone offers you a home for $800 a month with multiple bedrooms and a backyard, it's hard not to see why they would pass up this option instead of spending much more for a cramped studio or 1-2 bedroom apartment. That is of course, primarily the case in places like NYC where the prices are out of control. So, no I don't blame all of the borrowers, nor do I blame all of the lenders.
And my last point was...And there are still people in the NYC forum, who push even higher priced condos and homes and claim that people making 45k can afford it.
pghquest, I don't know where you are from, but I can surely tell you aren't from the NYC area. This thread originated in the NYC forum and was referring to the NYC subprime crisis. So my original post was in reference to that and should only be looked at in that context. Also, this thread was a spinoff of other NYC real estate threads, so please remember that.
Given that context, yes most people do rent here in NYC. We weren't talking about renters, however. We were talking about ownership in NYC where both the rental rates and the housing price rates are at astronomical highs. Add to that the low availability of affordable housing (both rentals and homes) and you have a true financial bind for any person making 35k or 45k to rent or own.
In other states you can rent an apartment, 1-3 bedrooms for under 1000 a month. Where I'm from, studios start at 900-1500 a month. And these are rentals. When rent is that high, it may seem more affordable to own, but with high housing cost and subprime loans, this market was ripe to get people.
My point is that people went for these loans because renting was becoming too high. And when someone offers you a home for $800 a month with multiple bedrooms and a backyard, it's hard not to see why they would pass up this option instead of spending much more for a cramped studio or 1-2 bedroom apartment. That is of course, primarily the case in places like NYC where the prices are out of control. So, no I don't blame all of the borrowers, nor do I blame all of the lenders.
And my last point was...And there are still people in the NYC forum, who push even higher priced condos and homes and claim that people making 45k can afford it.
That is all.
Well no where was NYC indicated in any forum posting on this thread and I'd be the first to agree that NYC is a world in its own when talking real estate.
As for your $800 a month vs a studio, I still have to disagree. If its to good of a deal to pass up, there has to be a catch. No where is a buyer excused for being stupid, just like not knowing the law is an excuse for violating it.
Yeah, some people were taken advantage of, but I'm willing to bet thats such a small minority. Most just thought they'd take care of that increase later, nieve for whatever reason, or thinking they can turn it fast enough.
Obviously the banks are not off the hook, but its my responsibility to know whats in the contracts that I sign. Its my responsibility to understand the contracts before I sign them. If I dont, its my responsibility to hire a lawyer to help explain it to me.
Our society is about now, now, now... Worry about the financial problems later.. You either deal with problems today, or you deal with them later.. Far to many people deal with them later..
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