Keystone Pipeline Reported Dead---Thank You Obama For Cutting America Down To Size (NAFTA, Congress)

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ

Your Language is offensive....

Not nearly as offensive as the continued willful ignorance of Frack-Heads and Key-tards.

Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ

... and if you want people to even consider yor points you many wish to re phrase and adjust your tone.

I have re-phrased and adjusted my tone......from informative to deservedly condescending.

Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ

We are using Fracking in regular gas and the reason why I know this is the tankers going to refineries.

Legal Fail.

Economics Fail.

Petro-Chemical Fail.

And you're offended because I now refer to idiots as Frack-Heads and Key-tards?

But, of course, tankers are going refineries!

Which part of "Republican Gerald Ford signed a bill into law banning the export of oil" do you refuse to understand?

US Public Law bans the export of raw crude oil.

What is so difficult about that? Help me out here....do you require dictionary links? Speech Pathologists? Want me to write in Romanian or German?

You cannot export oil.

Who doesn't get it?

It's a freaking fact. Get over it already.

The original Public Law exempted Alaskan North Slope Crude.

I've explained why repeatedly in numerous threads, albeit indirectly.

What was happening in the late 1960s and early 1970s? You were shutting down all those rinky dinky decrepit low capacity heavy oil refineries that had been around 50-100 years. You were building newer high capacity refineries to meet the needs of Americans into the mid-1990s.

These high capacity refineries were geared toward intermediate and light grade oils.

You cannot run heavy oil through a light oil refinery (although technology is starting to change that).

You have all of this Alaskan North Slope Crude which is a heavy oil, and no place to refine it.

Doesn't it make sense to exempt it from the law and allow it to be exported?

Yes....very good.....see...this is not rocket science.

About 20 years later, Bill Clinton under pressure from the State of California authorized a percentage of California Heavy to be exported for the same reason Alaskan North Slope is allowed to be exported.

Aside from those exceptions, the only way crude oil can leave the US is if it is refined.

So your claim that tankers are going to refineries is really highlights your ignorance.


Let's look at refineries.

As I said repeatedly ad nauseum you had 49 operating oil refiners, but only 17 refineries produced gasoline, because you need to the other 32 refineries to produce your Life-Style....which is obviously more important than gasoline.

As has been discussed on several threads, 3 refineries have since been closed, so that you now have 46 operating oil refineries with 16 producing gasoline.

What happened to the gasoline supply in the US? The gasoline supply decreased, since one of the refineries that produces gasoline was closed. Because gasoline demand remained constant or increased, the price of gasoline increased.

Then you're fracking, and fracked oil is garbage, high in Sulfur and Nitrogen and low in gasoline volume. The cost to refine fracked oil for domestic gasoline use is way too much....none of you would pay $5.00/gallon.

What refineries are doing is nothing to the fracked oil.....they're simply refining it exclusively for export, and at an higher profit. That higher profit allows them to import gasoline for domestic use, but it is still expensive, and that is why gasoline prices are increasing.

What part of "Basra Light" do you refuse to understand?
What part of "California Heavy" do you refuse to understand?
What part of "West Texas Intermediate" do you refuse to understand?
What part of "Brent Blend" do you refuse to understand?
What part of "Oklahoma Heavy" do you refuse to understand?
What part of "Louisiana Sour" do you refuse to understand?
What part of "East Texas Sour" do you refuse to understand?
What part of "Canadian Tar Sands" do you refuse to understand?
What part of "Unita Basin Black Wax" do you refuse to understand?

What part of "You import oil from Romania" do you refuse to understand?
What part of "You import oil from Vietnam" do you refuse to understand?
What part of "You import oil from Italy" do you refuse to understand?
What part of "You import oil from Poland" do you refuse to understand?

What part of "Organic Chemistry" do you refuse to understand?

What part of "Petro-Chemistry" do you refuse to understand?

What part of "Every oil field on this Earth is unique" do you refuse to understand?

What part of "If you want certain lubricants and fluids for use in Aerospace, then you must import certain specific oils from Italy, Romania or Spain?" do you refuse to understand?

What part of...

California Heavy = 6 gallons of gasoline per barrel
Oklahoma Heavy = 6 gallons of gasoline per barrel
Illinois Intermediate = 13 gallons of gasoline per barrel
West Texas Intermediate = 19 gallons of gasoline per barrel
Brent Blend = 22-24 gallons of gasoline per barrel
Tijuana Light = 22-24 gallons of gasoline per barrel
Canadian Tar Sands = 4-7 gallons of gasoline per barrel

...do you refuse to understand?

What part of "Switching form Oklahoma Heavy to Arabian Light instantly quadrupled your gasoline supply" do you refuse to understand?

Which part of "ppm" do you refuse to understand?

Which part of "EPA Tier 3" do you refuse to understand?

Which part of "EPA Tier 3 says gasoline is limited to 15 ppm Sulfur" do you refuse to understand?

Which part of "Fracked oil contains 35,000 ppm to 50,000 ppm Sulfur" do you refuse to understand?

Which part of "Canadian Tar Sands contains 80,000 ppm to 90,000 ppm" do you refuse to understand?

Which part of "The cost to reduce Sulfur is not free" do you refuse to understand?

Which part of "The time to reduce Sulfur takes longer than 3 nanoseconds" do you refuse to understand?

Which part of "The Sulfur Redux process decreases the gasoline supply" do you refuse to understand?

Which part of "Decreased gasoline supply results in higher gasoline prices" do you refuse to understand?

Here it is in simple English:

1] If you bring in Canadian Tar Sands, then you will reduce the gasoline supply causing an increase in gasoline prices.

2] If the law is changed and you are permitted to export raw Canadian Tar Sands, then it does nothing for your, um, "Energy Independence" (snicker) and you derive no economic benefit.

Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ

You guys just want to run the world on a battery car.

Reality Fail.

I'm an ultra-conservative. No one is to the right of me. My arguments are based entirely on organic chemistry, US Public Laws, and the immutable Laws of Economics, not ideology.

As a point of fact.....I take great delight than no one can refute any of the data I provide, since it is all based on science, economics and law.

Besides....as I have repeatedly mentioned, you need to cough up $3.5 TRILLION to upgrade and modernize your electrical grid infrastructure -- removing all analogy and transistor components from the 1920s to 1990s and replace them with 21st Century technology, plus re-wire the entire grid from the generation plants all the way up to your home (but commercial and residential buildings do not need to be re-wired).

Since you ain't got $3.5 TRILLION and since you ain't ever gonna have $3.5 TRILLION this whole electric car things is stupid, unless they figure out a way to get the cars to recharge their batteries without being plugged-in.

You're going to plug a few million electric cars into your grid? No, you're not. And I don't which would be worse, the massive wild-fires raging everywhere or the economics damages resulting from massive power outages lasting weeks and months.

Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ

Price, what a hot topic. The Price is up because of world wide speculators mostly. In the US there is not a shortage, because you pointed out and is correct, we export oil. That being said, that line of thinking gas should be 2.50 per gallon.

So much fail.

The gasoline supply in the US is fixed....static....unchanging...since you have a limited number of oil refineries, and an even limited number of refineries producing gasoline.

Short of building more refineries -- which would take a minimum of 12 years assuming no legal hassles --- your only option is to import gasoline.....which is exactly what you're doing, or you can stop refining garbage oils and refine sweet oils like Brent Blend or Tijuana Light or West Texas Intermediate that provide a higher yield of gasoline per barrel, which would increase the gasoline supply.

And your ignorance is showing.....you do not export oil, but you do export refined oil products, such as finished and unfinished motor gasoline.

The reason you export gasoline, is because the oils you are using -- like fracked oils -- are high in Sulfur content and cost way too much to reduce the Sulfur to meet EPA Tier 3 standards of 15 ppm.

The only thing worse than a Liberal is an ignorant knuckle-brained Conservative....

Mircea

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by desertdetroiter

Good. We didn't need it anyway.

its being transported by rail anyway - which is a far greater environmental disaster waiting to happen..Ultimately the oil will be moved south with or without Keystone XL...so apparently you need the oil.

http://business.financialpost.com/20...t-to-4-8m-bpd/

[HeyJude514]

Originally Posted by fusion2

its being transported by rail anyway - which is a far greater environmental disaster waiting to happen..Ultimately the oil will be moved south with or without Keystone XL...so apparently you need the oil.

Oil-by-rail shipments from Western Canada to triple in next two years amid pipeline crunch | Financial Post

We don't need the oil. We won't even be buying the oil. The Canadian oil company wants the profits, and in this country, the profits of oil companies reign supreme. A foreign oil company's profits overrule all else to the supporters of this pipeline, even when it comes at the expense of threatening the water supply for millions of Americans or stealing their land through eminent domain. All for the profit of a foreign oil company.

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Originally Posted by odanny

While I'm highly suspicious of anything being accurate coming from this OP, I won't celebrate the demise of the Keystone pipeline just yet. There are still a majority of Americans who believe in climate change (and this does NOT include Republicans) who know that this pipeline is the worst thing we could possibly build, far worse than hundreds (possibly thousands) of coal fired power plants. The long term impact of Keystone would be disastrous.

Let Canada be responsible for their own problem.

Do you base that on any science? Or was that just some more tripe from Democratic Underground?

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Originally Posted by Mircea

Great....another thread from a scientifically illiterate economically-challenged Key-tard.



Absolutely nothing.

In fact, just the opposite.
Because of fracking, the US is forced to import gasoline to meet Demand which is one reason why gasoline prices are so high and will continue to be over the long-term.

If Keystone is ever completed, you will be forced to triple your gasoline imports....how exactly is that being independent?

Canadian Tar Sands will cause a reduction in the gasoline supply in the US.

You're already exporting 12,000,000 barrels of gasoline...504 Million gallons of gasoline per month.

In perspective, 33.6 Million cars at 15 gallons per tank.

Why?

That's what the stupid Frack-heads wanted.

If you enjoy paying $3.73/gallon, then hug a Frack-head....if you don't, perhaps you might want to reach for the Louisville Slugger.

Garbage oils like Fracked oils and Tar Sands and junk like Unita Basin Black Wax are worthless for gasoline. They're fantastic for asphalt, diesel, bunker fuel, jellies and lubricants,....but then those things don't make your car go.

Canadian Tar Sands is high Sulfur, high Nitrogen, low on gasoline yield. That will reduce the gasoline supply in the US, driving prices up, and then you'll have to import even more finished gasoline (and a lot of it comes from Venezuela -- I just wonder if anyone sees the Great Irony that Frack-Heads and Key-Tards foam at the mouth over Venezuela, while simultaneously handing over their money to Venezuela).

The Key-tards are just like the Frack-heads......throw a tempter tantrum like a small child, and then when they get exactly what they want, they throw a temper tantrum because gasoline prices are too high, and even that wouldn't be so bad, except they blame everyone but themselves.

Petro-economically...

Mircea

Do you actually have any facts to support your statements? Because they fly in the face of logic. Fracking increases the supply of NG, driving down it's cost. Meaning more homes and businesses that relied on oil fired boilers and industrial processes switch to NG, reducing the demand for oil. Reduced demand leads to reduced prices.

The use of tar sands oils for thing like asphalt and diesel as you say do the same thing. Such production reduces the demand for higher quality crude, driving it's price down, thereby reducing gasoline prices.

Now...why am I trying to explain economics to an Obamabot? They are deliberately unteachable, clutching a blind faith in their party, and are unwilling to listen to facts or learn from them. I guess that makes me insane-the definition of which is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different outcome.

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Maybe we can make a deal with the Canadians. They take the criminal aliens that are flooding this country from Central America and we pass Keystone. We get rid of the criminals draining our economy, create tens of thousands of new jobs in construction, maintenance and service of the pipeline, and the Canadians make money off the tar sands projects, which should be sufficient to offset the cost of the criminal aliens. Besides, they have a few hundred million unoccupied acres. Maybe they can even settle some with the "first people".

[cjski]

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

Now...why am I trying to explain economics to an Obamabot?

You're calling Mircea an Obamabot?

[lvoc]

Originally Posted by cjski

You're calling Mircea an Obamabot?

That's a first...and likely a last.

[Enigma777]

Originally Posted by malamute

Yes --- and look how he's now packing the nation full with the most helpless and impoverished Central Americans -- and with skyrocketing fuel prices, exactly who is going to have to pay for these people's heat when winter comes? Every day Obama is bringing in thousands of these people who will now need heat in the winter, air conditioning in the summer, food and billions more dollars for their free health care. No good explanation for why he's bringing them in and he sure isn't the one who will pay for them -- but increasing the population rapidly while cutting off our fuel sources isn't at all smart.

Don't you get tired of making sweeping incorrect statements? Obama is not packing the country with immigrants--you have some GOP Presidents to thank, as well as prominent current GOP officials and party members. As I said before--it must be very convenient to have a bogeyman to blame for everything in your little world that upsets you. Being objective, using an historical perspective and having a reasonable reaction would be a lot tougher.

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[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Originally Posted by cjski

You're calling Mircea an Obamabot?

Oh, I have to get under his skin just a little Besides, his statement in this case is irrational and emotion driven...like most every one from ful-time Obamabots.