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It seems nothing of the sort. I explained the rather simple reason that Democrat/liberal POLITICIANS reflexively oppose anything that remotely threatens any union's power base, which school choice/vouchers/charters all do. And it isn't "some Democrats" it's "any Democrat who wants to get/stay elected" who dance to whatever tune the unions play. They are loyal, well funded, motivated lobbying group, and as a result, they get their way.
Now, to your straw man deflection, if I didn't care about teachers, I'D SUPPORT UNIONS, NOT OPPOSE THEM. When I got my math degree, a bunch of my classmates were getting math teaching degrees. When their final semester came around, they had to fill in their top three choices for where to be assigned. Every single of them wrote "Cleveland Catholic" for all three choices. Non-union, lowest paid, and every teacher I personally know would take parochial over public every day of the week and twice on Sunday because it's a better job, better quality of life, and better everything, mostly for one simple reason - bad kids can be thrown out, and parents who pay for their kids to go to school are generally more involved.
Opposing a union is the fastest way to show support for a job, because unions kill jobs by: artificially raising the wages for that job beyond what the normal market can bear, protecting bad employees and harming good one using seniority rather than performance based metrics, creating legacy costs that harm all future employees in that same business by driving down available resources to pay for outdated and often underfunded pension models, etc. Most importantly, they keep the barrier to entry and competition as high as possible, thus killing all of the quality, price and choice benefits greater and more robust competition typically delivers.
And given your zealous use of the straw man, complete with all capital letters in the latter sentence, it seems you don't much care about educating children as you do ensuring people who can't do arithmetic without a calculator are still employed as math teachers. How truly helpful for teaching our nation's youth....the notion that seniority, not knowledge, skill, nor value should have anything to do with remaining employed. Great news if you have seniority, but a tougher pill to swallow when you are on the outside trying to get in.
I am not deflecting anything or using a strawman deflection. I just stated facts.. Stop with your personal attacks. I guess you did not read my post about how the school board tried to take money for teacher salaries and use it else where. Without the union they wouldn't have had a chance.
I am not deflecting anything or using a strawman deflection. I just stated facts.. Stop with your personal attacks. I guess you did not read my post about how the school board tried to take money for teacher salaries and use it else where. Without the union they wouldn't have had a chance.
Yeah, they would have had a chance. Go get a better job elsewhere. It's what 93% of the total US workforce, otherwise known as "folks not in a union", do every single day. I've been treated poorly at different employers, and I work for exactly none of them any more. Why? Because in the non-union, meritocracy world, there's always someone out there willing to be nicer to the good employee.
No union ever looked out for me, and I work in an industry famous for being undercut by H1Bs and foreign competition. My work ethic takes care of me, and when/if an employer treats me poorly, I seek employment elsewhere.
Why can't teachers in unions do this? They do it in private schools. They do it in colleges and universities. Private tutors do it. So why do unionized teachers need a union to protect them from employers mistreating them? What is it about the unionized teacher that requires administrative collective bargaining strength no other kind of teacher requires?
I haven't read the 17 pages of gory bickering....but it's pretty simple.
Politicians align on topics largely over money.
Thus, for the most part the whole school voucher thing is prompted for the most part by a desire for more religious based schooling....and opposed because the public schools, their unions etc. make large contributions to oppose it.
It has very little to do with actual school quality.
The constitution of every state guarantees a free public education through high school.
Then why isn't it actually free? Why do students have to pay fees for many classes, buy their own textbooks, and some even have to pay for their school bus service?
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(set 23 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,553 posts, read 16,542,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78
So those that can't afford private school should just be homeschooled? That is a horrible idea. What about those parents that are working full time and can't afford to stay at home to teach their children because they can't afford private school?
Speaking of which, were you homeschooled or did you go to private school?
You misunderstood my argument.
The person i originally responded to 3 post back said people are forced into sending their children to public schools and that is indeed a lie.
You can send your child to public school, private school or home school. You may indeed be forced into choosing a specific one because of time and money, but that is not governments fault. Government didnt force them their circumstance did.
Also, i went to Public school. And I agree with fixing public schools.
Yeah, they would have had a chance. Go get a better job elsewhere. It's what 93% of the total US workforce, otherwise known as "folks not in a union", do every single day. I've been treated poorly at different employers, and I work for exactly none of them any more. Why? Because in the non-union, meritocracy world, there's always someone out there willing to be nicer to the good employee.
No union ever looked out for me, and I work in an industry famous for being undercut by H1Bs and foreign competition. My work ethic takes care of me, and when/if an employer treats me poorly, I seek employment elsewhere.
Why can't teachers in unions do this? They do it in private schools. They do it in colleges and universities. Private tutors do it. So why do unionized teachers need a union to protect them from employers mistreating them? What is it about the unionized teacher that requires administrative collective bargaining strength no other kind of teacher requires?
The person i originally responded to 3 post back said people are forced into sending their children to public schools and that is indeed a lie.
You can send your child to public school, private school or home school. You may indeed be forced into choosing a specific one because of time and money, but that is not governments fault. Government didnt force them their circumstance did.
Also, i went to Public school. And I agree with fixing public schools.
Who do you think protects teachers from the school boards? My brother taught 7th grade history for 26 years and his wife taught 3rd grade for 28 years. Back in the past the Union had to take the school board to court over money given to the school from the state for teachers pay. The school board decided to use the money fort something else. The school board lost in court!
My brother and his wife were considered to be great teachers.
You disparaging them is rotten on your part.
And where do I say ALL teachers are rotten? I say rotten teachers will go away.
Then why isn't it actually free? Why do students have to pay fees for many classes, buy their own textbooks, and some even have to pay for their school bus service?
Subjects for a different thread. Leave the goalposts where they are, thanks.
You moved them. Now you don't have an answer. It Figures.
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