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You did not understand; these are not the rebels talking, these are Kiev people talking about the rebels. If you knew Russian you would understand this. The video translation is incorrect. The Kiev people are describing what they thought happened, and who they thought shot it down.
It seems you don't understand. These are people discussing the incidents on the ground. Maybe you need to brush up on your Russian? My father speaks fluent Russian and had no trouble understanding that these were various separatist leaders communicating with one another.
The interesting bits are happening behind the scenes right now.
Russia is no doubt scrambling to figure out who knows what - I for one would be disappointed if we didn't have satellite passes over East Ukraine, but who knows if we had one with the right sort of gear at the right time? And if we did, do we even want the world to know?
Right know, it's as much a game of "Who knows what?" as "What happened?" If Russia wants to avoid worse sanctions (and they do, very much) they better be very, very careful with their messaging over the next few days.
one of the networks had an aviation/military "authority" on yesterday that inferred that while the US satellites could have picked up the origination of one of the larger ICBM-type missiles, the smaller, mobile platforms likely involved in this instance would not be detectable. He further stated that the US AWACS in operation over Poland while able to detect the smaller SAMS were likely too far away. The ground based radar operating in that area that could have detected the missile's origination, would have been located in Russia. So there's that...
Not sure how they would know. The black boxes will not be relevant anyway. We know the plane was shot down. The box won't tell us who fired the missile or from where.
The black box and relevant data has been sent to Moscow by the separatists.
Next, the BUK system captured on 29 June has from several sources (including Ukranian military) been discredited as being an inoperable system. If this is so, this is another system, and everyone can guess where it came from.
Just a week or so the separatists were fleeing from Slovyansk - one of their main bases - in total disarray. Now, the reports indicate that the Ukrainian military has been forced to a stalemate, mainly because heavy weaponry has suddenly appeared out of the blue to the separatists. And everyone can guess where those came from as well.
Earlier Russia has donated only hand-held light weapons to the separatists, but now suddenly heavy SAM and rocket systems on armoured vehicles has turned up in the region. A Ukrainian column was rocketed to smithereens just a few days ago. So Russia has stepped up the ante, from passive support to active. Some witnesses even say that rockets have been fired from Russia, in the Rostov region, also on video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUUzNnGGbSkhttp://vk.com/video-38854900_169726067
The airplanes downed by the separatists have been by Igla SAM manpads, which has a range of 11,000 ft. The downed civilian aircraft flew at 33,000 ft. So go figure.
As Finland has earlier operated the BUK-17 system, it didn't take long before finding a poster on Finnish forums who has actually operated one as a conscript. He said that it's a weapon that takes months to master, and easily several weeks to handle even adequately. Without an experienced head fire controller, you're not able to get the missile flying, as it's not a simple "press the button" system. So most likely at least the fire controller has much experience, being either a Russian 'advisor', or a former Soviet/Ukrainian/Russian military man.
The poster also said that especially on the older BUK-11 system the flight radar is rather crude, and it's very difficult to see a difference between a military and civilian plane, especially for the untrained eye.
it was the criminal Ukrainians trying to shoot down putins plane......yet the American liberals want to continue supporting the criminal Ukrainians
Dear Lord. Once again: The Ukrainian government's most fervent desire is to keep Russia out of the conflict. Going after Putin would achieve the exact opposite. It's RT-level idiocy to even suggest that, and people who do so should feel bad about themselves.
It wouldn't matter how the president responded to this incident, he would have been roundly criticized as being wrong. If he changed his schedule and rushed back to the White House they would say he's letting terrorists dictate his actions. More compassionate in his statement--he's showing the world he's soft and weak. Come out with a strong statement against the perpetrators--he's rattling his saber like the Chicago thug he is. Make a statement and then continue on with his schedule--he's disconnected and has no compassion.
The president made a statement about a tragedy with the information he had. He did not fan the flames with fiery rhetoric, he did not make threats, he did not assign blame without facts. It was an appropriate and proportional response. Conservatives responded to his statement with their usual Pavlovian drooling. Big surprise. Who cares what they say anymore?
Obama didn't need to "rush back to the White House" ...... he knew about the shot down passenger plane before he left the White House on his boondoggle stop in Delaware before he headed to New York for 2 Fund Raisers. He couldn't "change" his schedule because of the Fund Raisers - he get's to write them off as "Federal Business" if he can give one of his Lectures in route to the Funders. The plane was shot down at 10:00 EDT, Putin called Obama to complain about the Sanctions announced on Wednesday evening and during the conversation - told Obama about the downed plane. The Putin call was right after the plane was shot down. This is how the USA learned of the incident. Obama left the White House (after talking to Putin an hour earlier) at 11:20 EDT, according to the White House schedule.
The totally inappropriate part was the " Looks like itmay be a terrible tragedy", the 40 second statement and then the launch into Jokes and Republican bashing. I guess he had no choice - he had to do what was previously loaded into his teleprompter.
You know it's bad when Obama loses even Peirs Morgan
Obama's too much of a wimp to condemn Putin for letting this happen so I guess its up to the American people to twist his chicken wing arm until he does.
With Obama the weakling nonleader in the White House doing nothing but golfing and fundraising, is this 'accident' really surprising? Obama has blood on his hands. This is the hope and change snake oil you all bought.
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