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Yeah well...unfortunately, they didn't kill enough of those neo-confederates.
now now.
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Originally Posted by green_mariner
This is how I sum this up. I'm glad you posted this. I never learned about this until you posted it. I was never taught this in school. I was never taught about the slave rebellions in school either. In my high school textbook, Nat Turner was mentioned, but I can't recall my teacher ever mentioning it. Not once. George Washington was mentioned. Robert E. Lee was mentioned. General Sherman was mentioned.
And with the Civil Rights movement, people like Chinn are never mentioned, at least not in school. Chinn knew he needed to defend himself. What Dr. King did was nothing short of amazing. He got things done without using violence. I consider it amazing considering he was up against violence. Teaching about him is important. That being said, most children don't learn about Nat Turner in school, or those other Black slaves who started slave rebellions.
Why? This is what I believe. Black men who stood up for themselves by any means necessary, who didn't wait around for someone to come to their defense, are those who are not talked about in schools, at least not to the degree of historical Black figures who did things the non-violent way. And it is a double standard. Various White historical figures such as Washington, Lee, Sherman, Patton, these were generals. They are widely revered. However, Black men who were involved in armed rebellion or who used guns to defend themselves, not as much.
i dont remember being taught any of this stuff in school either, probably because it doesnt fit the narrative that slavery wasnt so bad, and those that wanted to keep slavery going would not benefit from knowledge like this getting out.
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Originally Posted by TreeBeard
So..as I understand the logic, gun control is bad because blacks during the civil rights movement used guns to defend themselves against racist who also had guns. That is some mighty fine logic.
Wouldn't the better lesson of that era be, keep guns out of the hands of gun crazy racists so that blacks and their families being terrorized by the gun crazy racists would not need guns to defend themselves from gun crazy racists.
how about instead we leave well enough alone and let law abiding people have the necessary tools they need to defend themselves?
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Originally Posted by green_mariner
Blacks have been subjected to strict gun control from day one. All the way back to the slave days. Blacks were forbidden from having guns because there was a fear that Blacks would rebel against slavery, and against the way they were being treated. Society has historically wanted the Black man to be docile and pliable, for the purpose of building a nation for which he would not benefit from. I'm talking from a historical perspective.
This article is about a book entitled "This Nonviolent Stuff'll Get You Killed: How Guns Made the Civil Rights Movement Possible" by Charles E. Cobb Jr.
Just another example from history of how an armed citizenry can fight back tyranny in their own government. I tend to agree with Cobb that without access to self-defense via ownership of arms, the civil rights act would not have turned out the same way.
I believe that communication technology would have ended Jim Crow laws alone... eventually. But without men like C.O. Chinn, it could have been A LOT more dangerous for black activists who stuck their necks out.
Discuss.
Excellent post--I will definitely go out and buy that book. There is a great book on Robert F Williams, (who was an ex-Marine, civil rights activist, and NRA member in NC) entitled Radio Free Dixie by Timothy Tyson, prof of African American studies at the Univ of Wisconsin.
There's a great piece here also by David Kopel entitled When the NAACP went armed. By the time Kopel wrote this piece, the NAACP was joining with Democratic big city mayors in an effort to sue gun makers into oblivion. http://www.libertyunbound.com/sites/...nuary_2000.pdf
Excellent post--I will definitely go out and buy that book. There is a great book on Robert F Williams, (who was an ex-Marine, civil rights activist, and NRA member in NC) entitled Radio Free Dixie by Timothy Tyson, prof of African American studies at the Univ of Wisconsin.
There's a great piece here also by David Kopel entitled When the NAACP went armed. By the time Kopel wrote this piece, the NAACP was joining with Democratic big city mayors in an effort to sue gun makers into oblivion. http://www.libertyunbound.com/sites/...nuary_2000.pdf
Thanks for the book suggestions, it is a truly interesting subject!
Guns don't kill people, crazy negros with guns kill people./sarc.
This is a little fact of history anti-gun *******s NEVER like to talk about.
It would be great if more blacks engaged in both open and concealed carry. I bet you wouldn't have stuff like those NYPD cops choking that guy on the sidewalk.
i dont remember being taught any of this stuff in school either, probably because it doesnt fit the narrative that slavery wasnt so bad, and those that wanted to keep slavery going would not benefit from knowledge like this getting out.
I don't think it is so much that it doesn't fit the narrative. I was taught about slavery in school and that it wasn't good. However, the slave rebellions are one thing that do not get spoken of much. You hear about Harriet Tubman, and how she helped slaves to freedom in Canada. And this is where I got an admiration for Canada. However, they never taught me that when some slaves thought about turning back, she said, with a shotgun pointed at them "freedom or death". Well, not in those exact words, but you get the point. Never learned about Nat Turner, never learned about Amistad in high school. My 7th grade English teacher, who also happened to be Black, taught us about Amistad, as well as showed us the film "The Piano Lesson". In my American History class in high school, we were shown "Gone With The Wind". And this was around 2002-2003.
I watched Roots one day. One of the men working for Master Reynolds(I think it was the Scottish guy) said that the difference between a slave and a free man is fear. It wasn't a matter of just keeping knowledge away, but keep the slave defenseless and scared. I will touch on that later.
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yep.
And the USA was not the only example. Capoeira is a major part of Brazilian culture. However, it came from the days of slavery. Slaves were forbidden to have weapons in Brazil, just as in the USA. However, unlike the USA, Brazil kept importing slaves. Some of those slaves came over with certain knowledge on fighting. Because they still had some of their African ways with them, it continued in Brazil. Slaves needed a way to defend themselves. They came up with capoeira. As soon as slave owners and the elite found this out, there were laws prohibiting the practice of fighting. The slaves found a way to disguise it as a dance.
One thing about slavery was this. People were kept ignorant and scared. If you're scared, you won't fight back. If you are ignorant, you won't think about fighting back because you won't question anything. I think about what gets taught. Stuff regarding Black men actually using guns to defend themselves aren't going to be taught in school nearly as much as the Black men who used non-violence. Don't get me wrong. People like Dr King and Jackie Robinson should be taught in school. However, the problem is, when it comes to Black history being taught in most public schools, the Blacks you are the most likely to hear about are those who bravely endured abuse. You rarely ever hear about Blacks who stood up and fought back, those who picked up the gun and fought their abusers. It's rare to hear that. To me, it isn't a matter of fitting the narrative of U.S. History. It's a matter of what kind of Black people many are comfortable with, and how it has been like this historically. Historically, society has wanted Black men to be passive, docile, and acquiescent. No fighting back, or else you got killed. Nowadays, you get slapped with the "angry Black man" title.
And the USA was not the only example. Capoeira is a major part of Brazilian culture. However, it came from the days of slavery. Slaves were forbidden to have weapons in Brazil, just as in the USA. However, unlike the USA, Brazil kept importing slaves. Some of those slaves came over with certain knowledge on fighting. Because they still had some of their African ways with them, it continued in Brazil. Slaves needed a way to defend themselves. They came up with capoeira. As soon as slave owners and the elite found this out, there were laws prohibiting the practice of fighting. The slaves found a way to disguise it as a dance.
And then Mazda corrupted a capoeira song for their "Zoom, zoom" commercials.
Harrier is being like Paul Harvey - providing the rest of the story.
A lot of people aren't aware that "Zoom, Zoom, Zoom" is a capoeira song - and if they did they might be inclined to learn more about the history of capoeira and its origins among slaves when they see the Mazda commercial.
Location: The Land Mass Between NOLA and Mobile, AL
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Originally Posted by shooting4life
Just about all gun control started with racist roots, even here in claifornia where the legislator didn't like the black panthers have guns. Of course the deacons of defense are always skipped in civil rights classes as well.
This is true. The whole reason the Panthers went to the Sacramento statehouse in 1967 was to protest the Mulford Act, which aimed to ban guns in Alameda County, which, of course, includes Oakland--see Winkler's Gunfight for more.
Tyson's book mentioned above is good, and folks also might be interested in Williams' Negroes with Guns, Johnson's Negroes and the Gun, and McGuire's The Dark End of the Street, which discusses black women using arms to fend off would-be white rapists during the movement. Hill's The Deacons for Defense deserves mention, as does Austin's Up Against the Wall, which is more about the Black Power period. Just F everyone's I if you all are interested.
Harrier is being like Paul Harvey - providing the rest of the story.
A lot of people aren't aware that "Zoom, Zoom, Zoom" is a capoeira song - and if they did they might be inclined to learn more about the history of capoeira and its origins among slaves when they see the Mazda commercial.
But what does it have to do with Blacks standing up for themselves.
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That is some mighty fine logic. 
