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Old 07-22-2014, 10:50 AM
 
8,276 posts, read 11,871,303 times
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The GOP will lose in the next round, once again. More waste of everyone's time...

This confirms, once and for all, that the GOP does not care about the health concerns of lower-and middle class Americans. Even though the Dems will eventually win on this issue through the next appeals court, it will give them another issue to use against the Repukes..
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:50 AM
 
7,908 posts, read 9,108,438 times
Reputation: 9264
I suppose the better question is why did ANY exchanges have to be created? People could buy directly from the insurance companies/brokers before and after the ACA. Having tax credits come only from exchanges despite the fact that you could still legally purchase the mandated insurance coverage from brokers or insurance companies is discriminatory.

If you can legally purchase the mandated insurance from a non exchange entity which fulfills the law, the tax credit at the end of the year should apply as well. I could see withholding the subsidy (where you need to verify income during the year), but the tax credit should be available at the end of the year when you file your taxes no matter where you purchased your insurance.

This is what the lawsuit should truly be about.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,809 posts, read 26,385,498 times
Reputation: 25704
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
The court has ruled that most subsidies are illegal.

Fed appeals court panel says most Obamacare subsidies illegal

Fed appeals court panel says most Obamacare subsidies illegal

This will of course be appealed to the Supreme Court but if upheld, then what?

I guess they should have read the bill to see what was in it, before passing it.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,288,091 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by NSHL10 View Post
I suppose the better question is why did ANY exchanges have to be created? People could buy directly from the insurance companies/brokers before and after the ACA. Having tax credits come only from exchanges despite the fact that you could still legally purchase the mandated insurance coverage from brokers or insurance companies is discriminatory.

If you can legally purchase the mandated insurance from a non exchange entity which fulfills the law, the tax credit at the end of the year should apply as well. I could see withholding the subsidy (where you need to verify income during the year), but the tax credit should be available at the end of the year when you file your taxes no matter where you purchased your insurance.

This is what the lawsuit should truly be about.
Because HHS became the middleman between insurance and the individual.
HHS worked with the insurance companies and promised them bailouts if they lowered prices.
You had to deal with HHS if you wanted to get a guaranteed bailout if you didn't make profits.

Individual->Fed->Insurance->doctor/hospital is what you have now.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,623 posts, read 19,092,469 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
The court has ruled that most subsidies are illegal.
Well, that's because you live in a federal republic and not a unitary State.

I'm glad people are finally reading the Constitution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Aside from the obvious conclusions in the ruling, this also illustrates how incompetent and/or careless Democrats were in drafting ACA legislation.
They never drafted it.

The vast majority of legislation was never written by Congress.

Special interest groups like "think-tanks", unions, corporate groups like the American Federation of Dairy Farmers and the American Hospital Association write the legislation.

They will select a congressperson who is least politically damaged or most influential to introduce the legislation for them. Often, this starts by approaching congressional staff members. Each senator and representative has a staff of people -- at tax-payer expense. These staff members are wined and dined to lean heavily on their bosses to support the legislation.

The two things Medicare and the ACA legislation have in common is they were both drafted by the American Hospital Association.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
This issue was brought up many times at congressional hearings and Sebelius & the rest of the administration ignored the questions and gave the impression that they were above the law and it didn't matter.

Well guess what, it does matter.
Well, there you go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borregokid View Post
This was a proof reading error in the original law. Someone at some level should have caught it.
I just wanted to remind you that someone already destroyed your amusing baseless claim.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
What then? Then, the Republicans will be in a horrible place.
Right, because obeying the Constitution is a horrible thing.

Which part of "intra-State Commerce" do you not understand?

Obviously...

Mircea
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,361 posts, read 9,760,781 times
Reputation: 6663
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The Dems knew they were going to lose the House so they just passed whatever was written to get it passed.
Now they're going to lose the Senate because Obama has become a King unto himself. He has a pen and a phone, and doesn't need the legislative branch to pass anything. When it comes to executive orders it isn't the quantity so much as the quality, and Obama would order the Constitution out of existence if he could get away with it.

Using these rulings as a reference, I'm happy the courts still have some semblance of constitutionality in their rulings. There are several cases heading to the SCOTUS that are going to challenge the constitutionality of the ACA based on how it came through the Senate rather than the House. If the ACA is constitutional as a tax, then it is instantly rendered unconstitutional because revenues must be introduced in the House.

From a legal perspective, the ACA is the worst clusterf^ck of law making in the history of this country, no matter how virtuous the intention is.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:00 AM
 
8,276 posts, read 11,871,303 times
Reputation: 10075
Quote:
Originally Posted by steven_h View Post
Now they're going to lose the Senate because Obama has become a King unto himself. He has a pen and a phone, and doesn't need the legislative branch to pass anything. When it comes to executive orders it isn't the quantity so much as the quality, and Obama would order the Constitution out of existence if he could get away with it.

Using these rulings as a reference, I'm happy the courts still have some semblance of constitutionality in their rulings. There are several cases heading to the SCOTUS that are going to challenge the constitutionality of the ACA based on how it came through the Senate rather than the House. If the ACA is constitutional as a tax, then it is instantly rendered unconstitutional because revenues must be introduced in the House.

From a legal perspective, the ACA is the worst clusterf^ck of law making in the history of this country, no matter how virtuous the intention is.
Georgie had a pen and a phone, too, and he abused Executive Authority more than anyone.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:04 AM
 
11,186 posts, read 6,482,170 times
Reputation: 4620
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
I agree that Democrats sought to push the cost onto the States. Obviously their intent backfired.

Many times, Congressional intent is demonstrated through rulemaking, which is an Executive Branch function. The Executive Branch has had since the 2012 Obamacare-is-legal Supreme Court ruling to demonstrate its intent through the rulemaking process. So, what we have here is a colossal failure on two fronts.....the enabling legislation didn't speak to federal exchange subsidies.....and Dept. of Health and Human Services failed to recognize the flaw and enact rules to correct the flaw. The Administration is incompetent, at best, and the Court had really no other option but to call them out for their incompetence.

No doubt this rule stings the White House quite hard.....especially since it likely could have been corrected through a rulemaking expressing HHS's interpretation of Congressional intent (which happens all the time.) Now that the Court has ruled, there's no opportunity for a rulemaking to correct this.
The whole case was brought because the IRS did use regulations to apply the subsidies to the federal exchange. It wouldn't have mattered if DHHS or any other exec agency tried to use rulemaking to extend subsidies to the federal exchange. The Appeals Court basically said the law's language is so clear, no exec agency can alter what it says.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,361 posts, read 9,760,781 times
Reputation: 6663
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
Georgie had a pen and a phone, too, and he abused Executive Authority more than anyone.
Obviously you didn't comprehend the quality over quantity point I made... right? You are also making it clear that EO's are an abuse of power. So, you must agree that Obama is abusing his power and must be held accountable. Unfortunately, (for your position) Bush is not relevant; however, Obama is.

See, if you're going to apply one set of rules to Bush and another to Obama, you look like a fool.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:15 AM
 
14,293 posts, read 9,653,703 times
Reputation: 4254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
What then? Then, the Republicans will be in a horrible place. It is one thing to rail against Obamacare and hold symbolic votes which have no chance of success, and quite another to actually vote to take away insurance from millions and millions of working class people by refusing to fix the law that puts insurance within their financial reach. If sensible legislators prevail, this may present an opportunity to fix both this and many of the other unintended consequences of the ACA. That's a long shot, I know, but the Republicans will have to at least address the issue before the court like it or not.
The dems passed a horribly written law along party lines, and Obama has administered it even more horribly, and you think this is all the Republicans fault or something?
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