Black Conservatives Confronted At Naacp Convention (employment, cocaine, statistics, ideologies)

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

Thats a huge pot calling the kettle black argument because all you are saying is that you like the requirements of the NRA, but not the NAACP.

I don't think pointing out that the NRA is issues oriented with a diverse political and social membership while the NAACP is party loyal is unfair.

The biggest problem affecting blacks in the US is jobs. Illegal immigration has disproportionately hurt blacks but the NAACP isn't advocating for blacks because the democrats (just like the republicans) want the latino vote. Nobody at the NAACP is going to rock that boat.

Anytime you see an organization that is supposed to support something like racial advancement or guns or abortion or WHATEVER.....get fully in bed with a single political party....they've been coopted and are thus no longer serving their purpose.

[itshim]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

All i ask for is proof to back up your argument, can you provide the correlation between the 2 ? Heck can you even prove black incarceration rate even went up.

I'm not going to give you any "proof" because for starters...it's pretty common knowledge that blacks were less economically stable, and less educated 50 years ago, but didn't have the comparable OOW rates, crime rates and other social problems that there are today. I'm not sure what "proof" you're referring to other than a liberal "credible" study for your eyes to substantiate...but then again, I'm not trying to prove anything to you...nor am I trying to recruit you...like I said, if I cared to make the attempt...I'd walk you right into your own backyard. I can't convince you with a study, any more than you can prove to me that you're POV is legitimate.

[earthlyfather]

Your defense of the NAACP's monolithic allegiance to progressive politics is without basis, old and disproven, not to mention, it is indefensible. Let us review how these (democratic) policies have positively affected people of color. I am going to focus on the African-American community since that is really what is represented by the NAACP. Surely, you have heard the quote attributed to Albert Einstein about the definition of insanity, "Doing the same thing, over and over again and expecting different results."

(1) Latest Statistics on Out-of-Wedlock Births | National Review Online

Preliminary data indicate that 40.7 percent of all 2012 births were out-of-wedlock, which is appalling, and there are vast differences among racial and ethnic groups. Among non-Hispanic blacks, the figure is highest, at 72.2 percent; for American Indians/Alaska Natives, it’s 66.9 percent; 53.5 percent for Hispanics; 29.4 percent for non-Hispanic whites; and a mere 17.1 percent for Asians/Pacific Islanders.

(2) Black unemployment rate is consistently twice that of whites | Pew Research Center

One 2011 working paper, after reviewing existing research on wage and unemployment differentials among blacks and whites, concluded that “none of the existing models of race discrimination in the labor market explains the major empirical regularities.”

(3) The Race-Hacks Defend Their Industry | FrontPage Magazine

Such ad hominem calumny suggests that somebody’s ox is being gored and doesn’t like it.

The overfed “ox,” of course, is the race industry and its enablers in the federal Leviathan. It’s understandable why these grievance-mongers want to deflect attention away from Ryan’s message. Since the rise of identity politics and anti-poverty programs in the 60s, the plight of the black underclass has worsened, even as the self-selected race tribunes––professors, “activists,” lobbyists, government employees, celebrities, politicians––have flourished. Given that the moral capital financing the race industry comes from the misery and suffering of underclass blacks, race-grievance entrepreneurs must ward off solutions to those problems that challenge the narrative justifying their own power.

...and more...

That narrative is simple: white racism explains the epidemic of black-on-black murder, children without fathers, lack of education, and dependence on the government dole. Since Klan-style racist violence and Jim Crow legal racism have disappeared, “racism” has to be redefined in ever more subtle manifestations like “institutional racism.” The best example of this scam is the “disparate impact” standard for identifying racism, a favorite of the current Department of Justice.

Originally Posted by thriftylefty

Conservative Blacks and Republicans as well have very little record to run on with regard to policies positively affecting people of color. Black Conservatives can't show what they did for black people they can only show what they did for themselves personally, which is in fact their argument, "do for your self," but this argument denies the reality that minorities need the help or the protectin of government. The NAACP, which probably was at one time a Republican organization, goal is to broker that protection or help from the government by leveraging votes.

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

I don't think pointing out that the NRA is issues oriented with a diverse political and social membership while the NAACP is party loyal is unfair.

The biggest problem affecting blacks in the US is jobs. Illegal immigration has disproportionately hurt blacks but the NAACP isn't advocating for blacks because the democrats (just like the republicans) want the latino vote. Nobody at the NAACP is going to rock that boat.

Anytime you see an organization that is supposed to support something like racial advancement or guns or abortion or WHATEVER.....get fully in bed with a single political party....they've been coopted and are thus no longer serving their purpose.

I disagree with the bold, but he specifically pointed out that the NRA had requirements to get in, He simply agrees with one set of requirements but not the other. Thats contradictory. And again, its his argument not mine. Im simply showing the hypocrisy in his post based on his own assessment.

The second bold is a straw man argument. You are making that claim as if there arent issues that the 2 parties completely disagree on .

[itshim]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

Which means nothing because the laws and economic environment of that state are still controlled by Republicans.

Whoopty do the Democrat you sent to the state legislature wants to raise minimum wage to 9 dollars an hour(left wing policy) to bad He/she is only 1 of 30 total democrats in a State legislature of a total of 150.

You are arguing that ideology/party policy trumps law, which isnt true and you know it. So im forced to believe you are just stonewalling for the sake of doing so.

The interpretation, implementation and design of policies are through laws which ultimately is the bedrock for economic environment. There's your initial problem...you can't even grasp the equation.

If you attempt to go against a State's policy that is interpreted by the law by using an opposing ideology, you are doomed to fail.

I never said "ideology party policy trumps law"...that's just your attempt to recreate an argument to make a point that was never made in the first place. Ideology/Policy are interpreted from the law, they aren't mutually exclusive. The underpinnings of your POV are simply wrong.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

I disagree with the bold, but he specifically pointed out that the NRA had requirements to get in, He simply agrees with one set of requirements but not the other. Thats contradictory. And again, its his argument not mine. Im simply showing the hypocrisy in his post based on his own assessment.

The second bold is a straw man argument. You are making that claim as if there arent issues that the 2 parties completely disagree on .

Ok let me ask a question then.

Why is the NAACP taking the position they are on illegal immigration when it's hurting black employment?

Seems to me that's a topic they should be breaking ranks with the democrats over.

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by itshim

I'm not going to give you any "proof"

Because you dont have any to offer, you have put forth an ideology, not evidence to support your argument.

Heck, i could do a better job than you do. You could have argued that Welfare programs favor single parents over families( housing/Vouchers and food stamps), That college financial aid services give more money to students with no job compared to those that do.

You could have atleast tired to tie those things to liberalism, but you didnt. You just played the "Conservative Card" and made no attempt to back it up because you couldnt.

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

Ok let me ask a question then.

Why is the NAACP taking the position they are on illegal immigration when it's hurting black employment?

Seems to me that's a topic they should be breaking ranks with the democrats over.

How is it hurting black employment ?

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by itshim

The interpretation, implementation and design of policies are through laws which ultimately is the bedrock for economic environment. There's your initial problem...you can't even grasp the equation.

If you attempt to go against a State's policy that is interpreted by the law by using an opposing ideology, you are doomed to fail.

I never said "ideology party policy trumps law"...that's just your attempt to recreate an argument to make a point that was never made in the first place. Ideology/Policy are interpreted from the law, they aren't mutually exclusive. The underpinnings of your POV are simply wrong.

What part of my post says I cant grasp the "equation" ?


You said that blacks in red states are still Democrats. That is indeed you saying ideology trumps law, because the few elected Democrats in red states arent making the laws. The Majority Party is.

You were arguing as if Democratic ideology rules those specific black districts and that is why they are equal to and worse than the black areas in Democratic states.

If you meant something else, then please, take the time to explain your position.

[itshim]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

Because you dont have any to offer, you have put forth an ideology, not evidence to support your argument.

Heck, i could do a better job than you do. You could have argued that Welfare programs favor single parents over families( housing/Vouchers and food stamps), That college financial aid services give more money to students with no job compared to those that do.

You could have atleast tired to tie those things to liberalism, but you didnt. You just played the "Conservative Card" and made no attempt to back it up because you couldnt.

I'm not going to argue with you...simply because, like I said...i have no interest in recruiting you..interpret that as you like. You continue to press "proof" (despite providing none of your own) as a way for you to prove that you're making a point...when in fact...you're not. nOw if you want to me to flood you with statistics, of blacks being majority democratic voters, yet with high unemployment rates, high incarceration rates, low academic achievement rates, high rates of broken homes and families by showing you the overlap of liberal policies and failed results...I can do that, but I won't (shrugs).

I'll stick by my original statement...if I were the least bit interested in trying to convince blacks to become more fiscally conservative, capitalistic, and self sustaining...I'd walk them into their own liberal havens and ghettoes seeking an explanation of their parties failed policies and ideologies.

But as of now, I don't care...and you know I've said this throughout my responses. You continue to yell "proof" as if I cared enough to prove anything to you lol. And then you flip that and say "you can't" desperately hoping to make a point.

Sorry man, I don't care enough to...lol