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I don't think it's a scoreboard. I think it's sad reminder of the type of enemy we're facing and should put some things in perspective as macmeal said. The fact that we're now being told about these is a sign of progress.
I do completely agree that we had no clue what we were getting into when we decided to invade. The predictions could not have been more wrong.
Nobody knew about the gas chambers until the GIs pushed into Germany in 1945, either. Although our liberal friends try to deny it (out of their own self-loathing), America is not evil. America fights evil.
Why are we in Iraq?? LOL We assumed that we would generate an environment of freedom. We assumed that after living under a brutal dictator fearing day to day for their lives, that once free they would feel grateful to their liberators. We further assumed that they would reflect upon how bad their lives had been and then endeavor to make a better society. We assumed to much... We failed to consider the cultures, religions, and temperament of the people in question. This is exactly why nation building does not work. We failed to understand that compromise is not part of their culture. Its an all or nothing deal for them. We failed to consider that many felt payback was due to those who had it better. We failed to see that those who were favored by Saddam were not likely to go down without just a little bit of hatred towards those who took away their benifactors.
Torture chambers in Iraq??? Who would have guessed that??? Torture after the liberation??? Who would have guessed that??? Given that it is a normal form of abuse in those lands. Have we forgotten the brutal be headings with dull knives? This is what happens in that part of the world. Religious fanatics at their best or worst..
We assumed too much. Even an abused dog will normally behave with relief and gratitude toward the one who frees it from its torment. Man is no dog however. Dogs don't have the capacity for evil.
Agreed. The lack of planning and cultural awareness was criminal.
It never ceases to amaze me how the terrorist-enablers (a.k.a. the loony left) in the US think that al Qaeda is the ONLY international terrorist organization on the planet. They conveniently ignore the terrorist training camps that existed in Iraq prior to the invasion in 2003. They ignore the fact that Saddam had been sponsoring international terrorism and providing safe-harbor to international terrorist organizations since 1977. They ignore this reality at the peril of American lives because it doesn't suit their anti-American political agenda.
I would like to remind them that we are engaged in a "War Against Terrorism" not a "War Against al Qaeda" or a "War Against WMDs". In order to win the "War Against Terrorism" we must first eliminate any government that actively finances, trains, or provides safe-harbor to international terrorist organizations. Not just al Qaeda, but ALL international terrorist organizations. Only our military is capable of accomplishing that task, not the FBI and not Interpol.
We didn't invade Iraq to free the oppressed Iraqi citizens. We didn't invade Iraq to eliminate WMDs. We invaded Iraq to permanently remove a government that was actively financing, training, and providing safe-harbor to international terrorist organizations for 26 years.
On 09/18/2001, when the "War Against Terrorism" was declared by Congress there were 50 known international terrorist organizations based in 27 nations. Of those 27 nations, only four were actively financing, training, and providing safe-harbor to international terrorists: Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, and Syria. Since 09/18/2001, two of those four terrorist sponsoring governments have been eliminated and two still remain. Thanks to the US and coalition forces in Iraq, the PLF international terrorist organization and its leader Abu Abbas have ceased to exist, but there is still more that needs to be done.
By removing the government of Iraq we have dealt numerous international terrorist organizations a crippling blow, but as long as the governments of Iran and Syria continue train, finance, and provide safe-harbor to international terrorist organizations we can not claim victory. When there are no terrorist sponsoring governments left on the face of the planet then, and only then, will the "War Against Terrorism" cease to be a military operation and become a criminal operation to mop up the remaining terrorist cells. Without government sponsorship, those remaining terrorist cells will be much less of a threat and capturing them will be much easier.
We cannot allow the leftist's lust for power at the expense of American lives detract us from what must be accomplished. Iran continues to fund and supply the Taliban in Afghanistan and both the Iranian and Syrian governments continue to train, supply, and support the terrorists in Iraq. The only way to win any war is to eliminate the enemies means to wage war against us, and that means the elimination of the terrorist sponsoring governments of Iran and Syria.
Why are we in Iraq?? LOL We assumed that we would generate an environment of freedom. We assumed that after living under a brutal dictator fearing day to day for their lives, that once free they would feel grateful to their liberators. We further assumed that they would reflect upon how bad their lives had been and then endeavor to make a better society. We assumed to much... We failed to consider the cultures, religions, and temperament of the people in question. This is exactly why nation building does not work. We failed to understand that compromise is not part of their culture. Its an all or nothing deal for them. We failed to consider that many felt payback was due to those who had it better. We failed to see that those who were favored by Saddam were not likely to go down without just a little bit of hatred towards those who took away their benifactors.
Torture chambers in Iraq??? Who would have guessed that??? Torture after the liberation??? Who would have guessed that??? Given that it is a normal form of abuse in those lands. Have we forgotten the brutal be headings with dull knives? This is what happens in that part of the world. Religious fanatics at their best or worst..
We assumed too much. Even an abused dog will normally behave with relief and gratitude toward the one who frees it from its torment. Man is no dog however. Dogs don't have the capacity for evil.
Works right into my constant "multicultural" theme. You're right---it was natural for us to 'assume' a lot of things, because to US, they were obvious. The gratitude that should have been forthcoming, the "logic" involved in who was to be seen as the 'bad guys', and who would be hailed as 'liberators'. The certainty that the weary Iraqis would emerge from the nightmare of life under Saddam--and his two gruesome sons--and RUSH to begin re-building their nation the NEXT DAY. It STILL makes sense to us---but not to everyone.
Culture is stronger than that. Culture can trump logic and 'facts'. And even 'common sense' is by no means common. A good illustration of the folly of 'multiculturalism', and one that should serve as a reminder to ALL of us. Are Middle Easterners congenitally 'inferior' to Westerners? Nope--just culturally very different, and that gap is one that won't go away by wishful thinking. And this 'adventure' in Iraq was WOEFULLY short on 'thinking', wishful or otherwise.
On 09/18/2001, when the "War Against Terrorism" was declared by Congress there were 50 known international terrorist organizations based in 27 nations. Of those 27 nations, only four were actively financing, training, and providing safe-harbor to international terrorists: Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, and Syria. Since 09/18/2001, two of those four terrorist sponsoring governments have been eliminated and two still remain. Thanks to the US and coalition forces in Iraq, the PLF international terrorist organization and its leader Abu Abbas have ceased to exist, but there is still more that needs to be done.
Where do you get this stuff?
You left out Cuba, North Korea, Sudan, and Libya which were also on the 2001 US government list of states sponsoring terrorism. You also added Afghanistan which wasn't even on the list. (link 1).You also forget to mention in your analysis that internal US intelligence reports gathered from 16 different agencies have determined we have raised the level of terrorism and threat to the U.S. as a direct result of the Iraq invasion. (link 2). You also neglect to mention that the Taliban have regrouped in Afghanistan and violence there in 2007 is up 30% this year. (link 3) Al Qaeda has also been determined to regain their pre- 9/11 strength around the globe. (link 4).
Reality is tough to take sometimes, but keeping the blinders on doesn't help.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf
Nobody knew about the gas chambers until the GIs pushed into Germany in 1945, either. Although our liberal friends try to deny it (out of their own self-loathing), America is not evil. America fights evil.
Since you seem to feel compelled to make this a left/right issue I'll give you credit for a new slant............................."self loathing". Usually the uptight-right response to any point of view other than its own is accusations of hating America, hating Bush, etc. Of course all of those accusations of loathing, hatred, etc. do nothing to support their own view.
And since you seem to believe America always takes the moral, altruistic course in matters of good and evil perhaps you can explain how aiding those like Pinochet, The Shah, Marcos, and all those other 'champions' of human rights and democratic principles is fighting evil?
Since you seem to feel compelled to make this a left/right issue I'll give you credit for a new slant............................."self loathing". Usually the uptight-right response to any point of view other than its own is accusations of hating America, hating Bush, etc. Of course all of those accusations of loathing, hatred, etc. do nothing to support their own view.
And since you seem to believe America always takes the moral, altruistic course in matters of good and evil perhaps you can explain how aiding those like Pinochet, The Shah, Marcos, and all those other 'champions' of human rights and democratic principles is fighting evil?
If I did, I would. Since I don't, I won't.
Now -- since you believe America always takes the immoral course, perhaps you can explain how aiding those like the English (twice), the French (thrice), the Dutch, the Poles, the Czechs, and the Koreans, among lothers, is abetting evil...
Since you seem to feel compelled to make this a left/right issue I'll give you credit for a new slant............................."self loathing". Usually the uptight-right response to any point of view other than its own is accusations of hating America, hating Bush, etc. Of course all of those accusations of loathing, hatred, etc. do nothing to support their own view.
And since you seem to believe America always takes the moral, altruistic course in matters of good and evil perhaps you can explain how aiding those like Pinochet, The Shah, Marcos, and all those other 'champions' of human rights and democratic principles is fighting evil?
Another exposed "America apologist" or "America hater"
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