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Old 08-03-2014, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,436,896 times
Reputation: 27720

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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
How naive.

They are merely funding leftie pet projects in order to garner political influence.

Have you seen the wealth of millionaires and billionaires shrink under obama?
And they will be the first ones to scream about how those greedy billionaires are making more money and hoarding it.

The gullible are actually defending this crony wealthy redistribution.

The ones that will get hurt the most from all these EPA crackdowns and regulations are the peons in America that have to pay their electric and gas bills and pay more for autos as the EPA "mandates" changes for the better of society.

That ethanol is a killer to small engines.
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:04 AM
 
11,086 posts, read 8,538,917 times
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The left in Europe doesn't swallow the propaganda as much as the left in America.

Here, we have a bunch of naïve cult members who think these billionaires care about them.
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,436,896 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goinback2011 View Post
The left in Europe doesn't swallow the propaganda as much as the left in America.

Here, we have a bunch of naïve cult members who think these billionaires care about them.
I agree. Europe seems to be above the propaganda hype.
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:17 AM
 
7,800 posts, read 4,396,512 times
Reputation: 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Go read up on the connection between the Sierra Club and the EPA for starters.
It's all orchestrated my friend. And it's a small circle at the top, just like with the FDA and USDA where the revolving doors keep these people employed..first with the government and then with the groups that protest against the government.
And the grant money flows freely to these groups and they have even been caught aiding and abetting each other.

I'll toss you one name to start....Al Armendariz
It would seem to me that comparing the amount of money/influence that the Sierra Club, a non-profit group BTW, would gain from pro-environmental legislation and the amount of money the Koch Brothers would gain from anti-environmental and lax legislation is like comparing a lemonade stand to MCDonald's. There is no comparison.

Furthermore, if we are judge the amount of influence that the Sierra Club and other non-profit environmental groups have in Congress compared to the amount of influence that big coal and big oil can buy in Congress is like comparing a speck of dust to a Arabian dust storm.
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:21 AM
 
7,800 posts, read 4,396,512 times
Reputation: 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goinback2011 View Post
The left in Europe doesn't swallow the propaganda as much as the left in America.

Here, we have a bunch of naïve cult members who think these billionaires care about them.
This statement applies much more to conservatives than liberals. It is conservatives that fall lock step with the rich and typically vote against their own interests.
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,436,896 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBeard View Post
It would seem to me that comparing the amount of money/influence that the Sierra Club, a non-profit group BTW, would gain from pro-environmental legislation and the amount of money the Koch Brothers would gain from anti-environmental and lax legislation is like comparing a lemonade stand to MCDonald's. There is no comparison.

Furthermore, if we are judge the amount of influence that the Sierra Club and other non-profit environmental groups have in Congress compared to the amount of influence that big coal and big oil can buy in Congress is like comparing a speck of dust to a Arabian dust storm.
Ah so you are basically dismissing this because it involves the groups that you think are out to save the world.

Well keep on with your thinking then and reap what you sow and don't cry in your milk that the rich are getting richer.

The Koch Brothers have been fed to you by the Dem party as the ones to hate.
Deflection so you don't pay attention to what is really going on.
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,436,896 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBeard View Post
This statement applies much more to conservatives than liberals. It is conservatives that fall lock step with the rich and typically vote against their own interests.
Really ? Go read up on how Soros benefited from the move to ethanol.

The wealthy..both sides, have all their ducks lined up before they get government to make changes to the laws.
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:39 AM
 
7,800 posts, read 4,396,512 times
Reputation: 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Ah so you are basically dismissing this because it involves the groups that you think are out to save the world.

Well keep on with your thinking then and reap what you sow and don't cry in your milk that the rich are getting richer.

The Koch Brothers have been fed to you by the Dem party as the ones to hate.
Deflection so you don't pay attention to what is really going on.
First. Being pro-environment should not be a liberal or conservative issue but it is. Environmental legislation has been shown to work and that lax environmental rules and regulations lead to abuse. The news is full of leaks and contaminants poisoning communities, Toledo just being the latest (though the cause is stil being determined).

If there are people making money from being pro-environmental and making products good for the environment, good for them and I will patronize there businesses. If they use that profit to influence Congress for more pro-environmental laws better yet. Why? Because the outcome is a higher quality of life for all. (Are there some hypocrites in this group? Of course, and they should be held accountable via the free market if they are.)

As opposed to big oil and big coal which do the same except the outcome of the laws they push on the American public benefit only them and have a negative effect on the quality of life for all those their pollutants and toxins affect. We need oil and gas, but I don't see how laws that protect the public at large should be laxed or repealed.
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,436,896 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBeard View Post
First. Being pro-environment should not be a liberal or conservative issue but it is. Environmental legislation has been shown to work and that lax environmental rules and regulations lead to abuse. The news is full of leaks and contaminants poisoning communities, Toledo just being the latest (though the cause is stil being determined).

If there are people making money from being pro-environmental and making products good for the environment, good for them and I will patronize there businesses. If they use that profit to influence Congress for more pro-environmental laws better yet. Why? Because the outcome is a higher quality of life for all. (Are there some hypocrites in this group? Of course, and they should be held accountable via the free market if they are.)

As opposed to big oil and big coal which do the same except the outcome of the laws they push on the American public benefit only them and have a negative effect on the quality of life for all those their pollutants and toxins affect. We need oil and gas, but I don't see how laws that protect the public at large should be laxed or repealed.
And all this is WITH government regulation.

Toledo's case, from what I've read, has more to do with high nitrogen fertilizer running off into the water.
And they've been warned about this for a number of years as the issue grows bigger and it finally hit them.

High nitrogen fertilizer used by homeowners all over the US is causing the algae blooms.
The naysayers blame it on the Ag community. Yet out here our tanks are clear.

The land is plowed and loosened up before any fertilizer is layed down and it is done when rain is in the forecast. This allows the fertilizer to seep into the soil rather than run off.

No so for your typical front lawn and backyard...put on top of compacted soil and runs off into the gutters during rain and into your sewer system which sends it right into your waterways.

Go do some research on these "algae blooms" and see where they are happening.
They are NOT happening in deep Ag country.
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,436,896 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBeard View Post
First. Being pro-environment should not be a liberal or conservative issue but it is. Environmental legislation has been shown to work and that lax environmental rules and regulations lead to abuse. The news is full of leaks and contaminants poisoning communities, Toledo just being the latest (though the cause is stil being determined).

If there are people making money from being pro-environmental and making products good for the environment, good for them and I will patronize there businesses. If they use that profit to influence Congress for more pro-environmental laws better yet. Why? Because the outcome is a higher quality of life for all. (Are there some hypocrites in this group? Of course, and they should be held accountable via the free market if they are.)

As opposed to big oil and big coal which do the same except the outcome of the laws they push on the American public benefit only them and have a negative effect on the quality of life for all those their pollutants and toxins affect. We need oil and gas, but I don't see how laws that protect the public at large should be laxed or repealed.
If you really want to be conscious of the environment then you don't need to buy any of their products.
Vinegar, salt, frequent mowing, mulching your leaves into the soil rather than bag and throw out.

All those are 1000 times more safe than buying any "environmentally safe chemical".
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