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Would not those college kids be included in the proposed draft? And the 'elders' aren't going to work forever, who takes their minimum wage jobs then ? And no, illegals by definition are not the answer.
So, the conservative mantra of 'personal responsibility' is yesterday's tag-line and nothing more?
I don't have the answer but there seems to be general agreement that much of a person's values are set quite early in life, I think 18 is far too late to start trying to put direction in young peoples' lives.
You're not going to draft everyone at once. That didn't happen even in wartime. That's a no-brainer.
I was 21 when I got drafted. I guess that was too late for me. I did my time, came home and got a job and finally started my own business. I managed to raise three kids and send them to college. Somehow, I squeezed it all in. One doesn't really make the most money from a career until he is 40 or so anyways.
Except that we don't really need a military build-up now. And, as a matter of fact, the military is currently down-sizing.
Things have changed A LOT since the Viet Nam war build-up.
There are no more 2-year enlistments. Minimum contract now is six years.
And it is highly doubtful that they would go back to anything less than six given how expensive military training is overall.
You seem to think that the military has all of these open slots just waiting to filled with warm bodies that they can afford to pay and feed and house (if need be) and happily train for life after the service.
What is your solution to the unemployment and under-employment rate for young people, or are you a sidewalk doomsayer?
You have to ask, what is unemployment and underemployment anyway? What is a job?
Look, jobs are everywhere and anywhere all the time. I would bet if you own a home, there are dozens of things that need to be done around the house that you have put off doing. But you are timid in regards to hiring someone else, most likely because the cost is too high.
The rate for a mechanic is about $70 an hour. The rate for a plumber is about $100 an hour, plus trip costs.
Even mowing your lawn, which might take someone 20 minutes. Might cost as much as $50. That is the equivalent of $150 an hour.
A job is nothing more than providing productive value at a price which is less than the value that another person would place on that given production.
Basically, if I go outside to sweep my driveway. I might be willing to hire someone else to sweep my driveway if the price was right. And that price is based on how much I value my time. I'm not going to pay you as much or more than I would pay myself to do the same job. Otherwise I would just do it myself.
The problem when it comes to unemployment. Has to do with expectations for compensation, and how economic manipulations disincentivize people from seeking less compensation than what they deem themselves to be worth.
If you don't need to work, then why work? I mean, a know a lot of people who are "unemployed", but it isn't because they can't find a job. Rather, it is because they would rather be unemployed than to work for less than what they believe they are worth.
As for employment, one of the major difficulties for many people, is the difficulty of starting any sort of business.
I mean, I don't know if you are aware of this. But it is actually illegal to sell lemonade on the street corner. It requires a permit and an inspection by the health department.
I mean, just about any young man could get a job being a handy-man or just some other low-skilled laborer if he decided to not be too picky in regards to wages. And the experience he would get from that kind of work would be invaluable.
But look at it like this. Why grow your own garden, if you get food stamps?
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68,292 posts, read 54,116,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_human_being
You're not going to draft everyone at once. That didn't happen even in wartime. That's a no-brainer.
Your proposal in the OP states "we should require that everyone between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five serve three years of military service. This means both male and female citizens."
Given that we'd be taking those who have physical issues, marriages, and other deferments that would've exempted them from past drafts as well as females I'd guess even if we only took the 25 year olds, and we'd have to in the first go around, I'd wager the number would exceed the numbers drafted during the height of Vietnam and we weren't exactly worried about imparting marketable skills back then. The time to give people direction is when they're quite young, 18 + is too old.
Your proposal in the OP states "we should require that everyone between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five serve three years of military service. This means both male and female citizens."
Given that we'd be taking those who have physical issues, marriages, and other deferments that would've exempted them from past drafts as well as females I'd guess even if we only took the 25 year olds, and we'd have to in the first go around, I'd wager the number would exceed the numbers drafted during the height of Vietnam and we weren't exactly worried about imparting marketable skills back then. The time to give people direction is when they're quite young, 18 + is too old.
I don't know. I haven't researched how many 25 year olds there are. Since you're worried, why not look it up?
I was 21 when I got drafted. I guess that was too late for me. I did my time, came home and got a job and finally started my own business. I managed to raise three kids and send them to college. Somehow, I squeezed it all in. One doesn't really make the most money from a career until he is 40 or so anyways.[/QUOTE]
You seem to believe that military service is the answer of everything. It is not. Everybody has different life plans. Not everybody needs government assistance, (job training, included)
Take me as an example. I am a fine artist and I also own my own business (My family business). Why do I need to be drafted into the military for? Art and running business have always been my passion. There are different ways to serve my country. The money I make from the jobs I love create freedom for me to be a volunteer at my local VA hospital. I also create arts to show my appreciate towards military.
My bro joined because he wanted to be there. Plain and simple. He wanted to be a Marine when he was 18, not a doctor. Plain and simple.
The best thing about this country is that we have freedom to choose.
You seem to believe that ONLY the poor join the military. This is a big big myth. We are from very comfortable upper middle class family here in Newport Beach, California. ALL my military friends choose Marine Corps over anything else. Trust me, they have many choices to be successful. They all CHOSE to be in the service. CHOSE being the key word here.
There are some financially challenged individuals choose military to get a college education. They are already doing it. But not everybody in this country needs that option.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,292 posts, read 54,116,795 times
Reputation: 40596
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_human_being
I don't know. I haven't researched how many 25 year olds there are. Since you're worried, why not look it up?
I'm not worried because I don't think Congress would ever pass a new draft.
What worries me are conservatives who claim to favor less government/less spending yet have NO problem dreaming up schemes to make the military larger and give it more $$$.
What is the source of this disconnect that apparently makes conservatives believe the military is not the government?
The current Congress isn't about to implement my plan either but at least I have one even if it is unpopular.
Where the difference of opinion between you and I comes in, isn't our goals. I believe we have mostly the same goals. What you seem to be incapable of seeing, is that we can get there in better ways.
The draft is a way to get young people doing things. But it is also something which is easily exploited and abused for political purposes. As well as obviously being an incredible violation of personal freedom.
Look at it like this. You are seeing that there is a problem, and you are trying to find a solution for that problem. What you should be doing instead, is asking why is there a problem to begin with?
More importantly, you need to understand if this is a "natural problem". As in, it is the natural outcome of human nature/freedom. Or if this is actually an "artificial problem".
To find that answer, you need to contrast the past with the present.
For a quick reference. When I am in doubt, I like to use the Amish as a reference point.
Do young Amish men have these same problems? If not, why?
If you want my analysis of why young men are the way they are. It is one part youth culture, which is largely a consequence of age-segregation in our public school system. It is one part government assistance, which enables the absence of the father from the household. It is one part the illegality of child labor, because children never learn how to work(farm kids learn to work at an early age, and don't have the same problems as "city kids").
I think you can actually solve the degeneracy of young men through more freedom.
If you were to strip away public schools, government assistance, and child-labor laws. Young men would learn to be disciplined and responsible at an early age. Because they would have to.
Right now, the system allows them to basically act like children forever. The only responsibility they have, is what they choose to take on.
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