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I have no sympathy with Hamas, but Zionism is/was a terrible mistake. Atrocities against Jews in WW2 Europe and the Palestinian people are paying the price. On the TV we see spokespeople for Israel - from the UK, US, South Africa etc. who have more rights than the original people. Not to mention the 'settlers' - again invariably from developed western countries. It's unjust, misguided, and bad for all, no less for Jewish people themselves. Radical Islam is one of the biggest dangers in the world today. Zionism (the 19th century dream of a few intellectuals) - is just wrong. Since the clock can't be turned back, the Israelis should be proactive in bringing about a two state solution, returning the land back pre 67. There'll be no peace or equity till then.
Two points to the think about: The current "Settlers" are not Zionists as they don't believe in the State of Israel. They are there because of the Biblical Land of Israel. The Israeli gov't allows them to build there for that reason and also to increase the Jewish population of the country. Also keep in mind not all areas called "Settlements" are "Settlements". Many of them existed before 1948 and were bulldozed by the Arabs after the 1949 Armistice, so they are actually towns taken back by the Jews that once lived there and rebuilt.
As to the comment of returning to pre-1967 borders, it does not create a Palestinian State since none was created in 1948 Thus returning to pre-1967 borders returns the Gaza Strip to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan since both were annexed by them. But sure go ahead and do it if you really think they will do much better under the controls of Egypt and Jordan since they had both regions for 18 years and did nothing that could be seen as creating another country. Maybe they'll do better this time around or we'll have another two Syria's to contend with.
I don't eat it up. Please speak for yourself. I am an American and don't "eat it up". I know perfectly well what the monster Hamas are doing. But I also know that it is very sick for Israel to allow them to respond by the provocation by Hamas by killing in such a wanton manner. (You will say it is not wanton but it IS.) Israel ought be bigger than that and they are not. They are aware that they kill almost 2,000 Palestinians, more than half children, old people and other innocents and that they have maimed countless others and caused horrific psychological damage to the Palestinians. Yes, I know that the Hamas is sending rockets into Israel but this does NOT justify such a ridiculously out of proportion number of civilian deaths. All you say is that Hamas is forcing people, but the fact is that Israel is going right along. I am tired of hearing the same old, same old song about how Israel is only defending itself and I am sick and tired of hearing supporters of Israel say that we are all holding Israel to a different moral standard than the Hamas. Hamas is a miserable wretch of a murderous group but that does not excuse Israel.
It is not Israel's fault that so many of their victims are "half children, old people and other innocents" when the Hamas is forcing these people to stay in the targeted zones. What do you expect Israel to do when Hamas sends hundreds of rockets into their country (also breaking the agreed upon cease-fire)? Just not...do anything? Just chill and be like "well, there are kids over there so we can't defend ourselves now." Come on now. Gaza has 1.9 million people squeezed into 139 square miles - it's very, very crowded. There is no way for Israel to defend themselves without claiming innocent victims. It's war. Caused NOT by Israel. If they don't like it, then Gaza should try stopping Hamas. Problem is, many many Gaza residents not only welcome this behavior by the Hamas, but they encourage it. They call themselves martyrs (these innocent civilians mind you) and say they are glad to die in their homes to support the Hamas.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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Israel has a right to defend itself from an active attack, and Hamas needs to stop doing that or risk the destruction of Gaza ........ but ........... Israel shouldn't have made life so intolerable for Gazans that they would vote in Hamas thugs with landslide victories. Once Gaza is demilitarized, the Israelis should find some way for them to live decent lives, though of course that's difficult to do without arms smuggling and other security problems.
Egyptians don't want them. Jordan doesn't want them. No one wants them into their country even as refugees since they're such a destructive force. However they get a lot of financial support because Muslims around the world appreciate them being a thorn in the side of Israel, and an excuse to go to war if necessary some day.
Islam has been at war with kafirs for 1400 years.
... Political Islam
Deaths (cumulative)
Christians : 60 million
Buddhists : 10 million
Hindus : 80 million
Africans : 120 million
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Total : 270 million
Islam has been at war with kafirs for 1400 years.
... Political Islam
Deaths (cumulative)
Christians : 60 million
Buddhists : 10 million
Hindus : 80 million
Africans : 120 million
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Total : 270 million
That may be the case, but how do you think Palestinian Christians feel about Israel? Israel, founded based on religion, is part of the problem.
It is not Israel's fault that so many of their victims are "half children, old people and other innocents" when the Hamas is forcing these people to stay in the targeted zones. What do you expect Israel to do when Hamas sends hundreds of rockets into their country (also breaking the agreed upon cease-fire)? Just not...do anything? Just chill and be like "well, there are kids over there so we can't defend ourselves now." Come on now. Gaza has 1.9 million people squeezed into 139 square miles - it's very, very crowded. There is no way for Israel to defend themselves without claiming innocent victims. It's war. Caused NOT by Israel. If they don't like it, then Gaza should try stopping Hamas. Problem is, many many Gaza residents not only welcome this behavior by the Hamas, but they encourage it. They call themselves martyrs (these innocent civilians mind you) and say they are glad to die in their homes to support the Hamas.
All you are doing is repeating the same thing without adding anything new. You are saying it is not Israel's fault that so many of the victims are innocents. Well, then, who sent the bombs? Israel. Israel had a choice and it chose to kill that many innocents - knowing that they would be killed because of the physical danger they were forced to live in. So, what's your argument? It seems like it is just that Israel had no other choice but to kill them along with the enemy. A sick argument if there ever was one, a morally bankrupt one.
You of course overlook the fact that many Palestinians who were killed and maimed could not possibly have supported Hamas and you make the convenient presumption that the rest of guilty of supporting Hamas - guilty, not proven so, but you will call them guilty and let them die nonetheless. You are judge and jury. It should also be said that according to many the Palestinians cannot speak out against Hamas for fear of sure death of themselves and their family members. Not that you bother to mention this.
One possible compromise would be to make ALL organized religions illegal. If we get rid of both Islam and Judaism, there won't be any such factions to fight each other. At least not on religious grounds. If people want to practice religion, they should do so individually, without being in organized religions. Most religious people acquire their religion as small children, when they don't have the minds to be skeptical. If religion were illegal, children could grow up free of such influences, and make up their own minds about whatever gods might interest them, when they're adults and not influenced by religious culture.
A lot of people will say that's the opposite of freedom. For the state to prohibit organized religion. But, being organized, the religion itself is a kind of state. I'm not saying to prohibit religion, but just organized religion. With something like a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.
Israel and Hamas would still be at war with each other, because they're people, and war is what people do. But they could gradually become friends, because they would have less to argue about. Once they become good friends, they might be motivated to stop killing each other.
One possible compromise would be to make ALL organized religions illegal. If we get rid of both Islam and Judaism, there won't be any such factions to fight each other. At least not on religious grounds. If people want to practice religion, they should do so individually, without being in organized religions. Most religious people acquire their religion as small children, when they don't have the minds to be skeptical. If religion were illegal, children could grow up free of such influences, and make up their own minds about whatever gods might interest them, when they're adults and not influenced by religious culture.
A lot of people will say that's the opposite of freedom. For the state to prohibit organized religion. But, being organized, the religion itself is a kind of state. I'm not saying to prohibit religion, but just organized religion. With something like a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.
Israel and Hamas would still be at war with each other, because they're people, and war is what people do. But they could gradually become friends, because they would have less to argue about. Once they become good friends, they might be motivated to stop killing each other.
Good luck with that one, it is one thing to have an idea, it is another to actually put it into action.
This is not surprising- like all muslim fanatics, they are bullies, cowards, and stupid. Of course, alot of the media will still try to make Israel look bad because of this. They are an evil entity that needs to be wiped out completely.
You sound a little fanatical yourself.
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