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Old 08-13-2014, 06:13 AM
 
939 posts, read 3,379,932 times
Reputation: 620

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManassesMomma View Post
Your principals may be bought off, but there are those out there that greed and money do not sway their beliefs so easily.
Integrity. Some have it and some don't.
Care to elaborate further?

 
Old 08-13-2014, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,140,447 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by JobZombie View Post
And be prepared for those who sympathize with the shopkeeper to support and rally to THIER defense. The enemy of my friend is my enemy.

Are you all going to run out and buy a wedding dress? It is kind of a niche market.
 
Old 08-13-2014, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
1,035 posts, read 1,549,212 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
As someone who has spent most of their lives in MA... the Boston metro area, just like NYC and San Francisco, has always been accepting of gays and lesbians. But at the same time, the gay lifestyle has never been thrown in front of everyone's faces. Openly gay behaviour was limited to gay bars and clubs, certain neighbors like the South End and extremely concentrated in the summertime in Provincetown on the Cape.
Anyone who is actually accepting of diversity, not just the LGBT community wouldn't make the above statement. The "thrown in everyone's faces" wah wah line is a cop out for, "I don't like the fact that this is mainstream now. Can we please go back to the days of segregation? My superiority complex has been rattled yet again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Anyway, my point is that Boston didn't have a bunch of overly sensitive gays running around throwing hissy fits when they felt slighted. And by being low key and going with the flow, non-gays and even those who weren't thrilled by the presence of the gay lifestyle, just shrugged their shoulders and looked the other way and went about their own business. They are churches with rainbow flags out front and the gays know that they are welcome there. And if anyone is offended by their lifestyle, they find another church to go to. For decades, one of my Boston gay friends would point out to me the rainbow marker indications in the bars of businesses who were gay friendly. Some of it was joking around, but at the same time, he would never dream of going into a strange bar that appeared super straight to him. He prefers to be among other gays.
Change all of the above instances of "gays" to "blacks" and you've nearly spoke a script out of something from the 1960s when segregation was the hot topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
So again I say that given that this PA town had two bridal shops, it should have been no big deal for the lesbian couple to visit the other shop to buy a wedding dress at. I think that a single owner mom and pop shop (not a chain) should be allowed to promote or sell their goods to any specialty group they want to. This bridal shop obviously only wants old fashioned traditionally minded customers. Let that old lady owner do her thing in peace. And in a positive way, that lesbian couple should have instead just bought their dress at the other shop and promoted their dresses instead (but not knocking the other shop). And if they wanted to post on FB that the other shop was the best bridal shop in town, then I would support that. But don't badmouth the other shop and rally their gang to bring on the hate.

Now instead of a lesbian wedding full of love, it's tainted by all the hate that they've generated against this poor bridal shop owner that didn't approve of their lifestyle.

And why broadcast this bridal shop owner's views on the gay lifestyle? Gay civil unions have been voted in, however nowhere have the votes reflected universal acceptance. No vote has been a sweeping 90% approval. Most has been court decisions based on technicalities of the law and the Constitution. And isn't what goes on in the voting booth supposed to be completely private and anonymous? Just so this sort of bullying can't occur.

But now gays are public bullies for their cause when instead they should by their day to day actions be winning over more of the public by being openly gay, well-mannered and good citizens while doing so. I don't understand the sudden impatience for universal acceptance. Surely they know that there are many straight people who are publicly supporting this bridal shop owner in order to appear politically correct, when deep down inside they disagree. So how is this making real progress for gay acceptance?
Once again, why did African Americans and women all of a sudden want universal acceptance? Shouldn't you and I as presumable white men be superior! Rabble Rabble!

"But don't badmouth the other shop and rally their gang to bring on the hate." ... You mean to tell me that YOU have never complained about the service you received at an establishment of any kind? These women received unacceptable treatment, so they complained. It just turns out that their complaints took off like fire and gasoline. Because, once again, our society as a whole is starting to see why discrimination of any form is so wrong. So naturally, it doesn't offend just the LGBT community, but people with a brain who also say, "This is wrong." These two women didn't do this by themselves. If I complain at lunch today that my sandwich is cold, I'm not going to get an army behind me because it isn't offensive. However, if I go to a restaurant and they won't serve me because of my sexuality, guess what, that doesn't just effect me. My sandwich being cold just effects me. If I walk into a place and they won't serve me because of my sexuality, other customers are effected and other customers are going to say, "My brother is gay. I won't shop there." "My best friend is gay, I won't shop there." So on and so forth.

And why broadcast this bridal shop owner's views on the gay lifestyle? Gay civil unions have been voted in, however nowhere have the votes reflected universal acceptance. Really? If someone is going to have views and serve the public, he or she ought to be prepared for the repercussions his or her beliefs may bring, especially when they bring personal beliefs into the business world. The business owner has a belief and it turns out it isn't popular and damaging to her business. Tough. Deal with it. That's the risk you run dealing with the public. And FYI, they aren't "gay civil unions," they're marriages. OUCH, another blow to that superiority complex of yours!
 
Old 08-13-2014, 07:25 AM
 
13,238 posts, read 9,849,560 times
Reputation: 14285
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManassesMomma View Post
Your principals may be bought off, but there are those out there that greed and money do not sway their beliefs so easily.
Integrity. Some have it and some don't.
Integrity my arse. They weren't offered 10 mil to enter into a same sex marriage. If they'd turned that offer down their integrity would be intact.

Jesus was accepting of all people, sinners or not. They are not the guardian of everyone else's life. It's the extreme arrogance that goes with judging other people's (perfectly legal in PA) decisions as if you have the right to do so just because you sell something that will be worn by people who aren't like you, that get my goat.

No one's asking them to participate in any homosexual act. Integrity (selective) is not an excuse when you are not being asked to do anything that personally that goes against your principles. If you don't believe in gay marriage then don't have a gay wedding.

It would appear that what they're doing is not cool with their own religion, for that matter. Cherry picking does not integrity make.

Quote:
Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
 
Old 08-13-2014, 07:26 AM
 
34,620 posts, read 21,491,843 times
Reputation: 22232
I think it's dumb that they turn away customers; however, a private business should be allowed to do business with whom they choose.
 
Old 08-13-2014, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,885 posts, read 10,916,910 times
Reputation: 14180
"That's great, congratulations. It is NOT the "text book" of the United States of America and it CANNOT be used to create or determine laws for society. If you would like a country that uses it's religion to make laws, try a country that's a theocracy."

That is referring, of course, to The Bible (and presumably all other religious works).
I wonder; how many of The Ten Commandments are codified into local, county (or Parish), state, and Federal law? How many of the prohibitions about what can and cannot be done on Sunday (Blue Laws) are based on religion?
IMO, if one stops to really THINK about it, religion and law cannot be separated. Most of the basic laws of society are based on some religion, but NOT necessarily a Bible based religion!
Be that as it may, there is still the matter of RIGHTS! Should a business owner have the RIGHT to refuse service to anyone?
IMO, the answer to that is, and MUST be, a resounding YES!
Does a customer have the RIGHT to force a business owner to serve them?
IMO, the answer to that is, and MUST be, a resounding NO!
 
Old 08-13-2014, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Here
2,887 posts, read 2,626,236 times
Reputation: 1981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
This reminds me of back in the day when Blacks held a sit-in at a Woolworth's lunch counter.

History repeats itself.
This situation actually reminds me of perpetually unhappy disgruntled malcontents frustrated and angry that they will never ever achieve 100% compliance with their cause, their agenda nor ever themselves.

History has not repeated anything dear boy. You people can still get food anywhere, right? You drink from any water fountain, right? Your sexual perversion plight is zero compared to the black racial situation.
 
Old 08-13-2014, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Here
2,887 posts, read 2,626,236 times
Reputation: 1981
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
THEY BOTH have to deal with the consequences of their action.
THIS you can take to the bank. I sure would not want to be on your side though.
 
Old 08-13-2014, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,014 posts, read 27,402,975 times
Reputation: 15934
Quote:
Originally Posted by JobZombie View Post
This situation actually reminds me of perpetually unhappy disgruntled malcontents frustrated and angry that they will never ever achieve 100% compliance with their cause, their agenda nor ever themselves.

History has not repeated anything dear boy. You people can still get food anywhere, right? You drink from any water fountain, right? Your sexual perversion plight is zero compared to the black racial situation.


So you believe that gays and lesbians should just settle for ".. can still get food anywhere" while you call them sexual perverts. Showing such arrogance is not very Christ like.

The prospect of restricting the business to only straight people based on the owners' religious beliefs is only sending the message that their religious beliefs are superior to the beliefs held by the gay people they refuse to serve. Where is the fairness in that? The line must be drawn at refusal of services (decency of personal character is an entirely different issue) otherwise we are returning to a mentality and behavior of segregation times, only instead of blacks not being served, it's gays.

You are a Christian, no? What does bible say about fairness?

1 Peter 3:8English Standard Version (ESV)

Suffering for Righteousness' Sake
8 Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind.

 
Old 08-13-2014, 07:51 AM
 
18,337 posts, read 18,938,292 times
Reputation: 15642
Quote:
Originally Posted by JobZombie View Post
This situation actually reminds me of perpetually unhappy disgruntled malcontents frustrated and angry that they will never ever achieve 100% compliance with their cause, their agenda nor ever themselves.

History has not repeated anything dear boy. You people can still get food anywhere, right? You drink from any water fountain, right? Your sexual perversion plight is zero compared to the black racial situation.

even when 100% of the gay "agenda" is complete there will still be ignorant bigots who will target them, refuse service and continue the hate and discrimination. that will never change. you think it is ok for a business owner to refuse service to gay people. it is not too far off to imagine if this bridal shop owner had a water fountain there would be no gays allowed to drink from it. it is bigotry.

again just how should gay people know ahead of time what stores welcome them and which ones don't?
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