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They are not envious of our freedom, OK? The only reason they want to kill us is because we interfere in their quest to kill each other. If we just let them kill each other, exterminate each other, do whatever to each other, they will be happy and we will be left in peace.
I dunno. They seem pretty hell bent on nor stopping and making a point to kill and make suffer all non-Muslims. We didnt make them do the things they're doing.
I was against the Iraq war in 2003 because Saddam was secular and would have killed off any radicals. If we never invaded Iraq ISIS wouldn't exist today ISIS truly is a great threat, they cut off heads and kill Christians. I would like to see the U.S get in a ground war against ISIS and hopefully eliminate them and their supporters. Once again this is coming from someone who was against the previous Iraq wars.
I will also elaborate what I fear and why I fear it.
No. I don't think ISIS members are going to rock up at my house any minute and kill me. I don't think that they are on the immediate verge of attacking the West. They haven't even taken over Iraq yet and they are in somewhat of a stalemate in Syria.
What I do fear is that if they succeed at least in Iraq that the West is going to have to end up dealing with them in the future. They have made their intentions clear that they are eying the rest of the Middle East and if they succeed in at least of few of their goals it is going to make the world a less stable, more brutal, and more warlike place. If ISIS takes over Iraq, they will have access to 10% of the world's oil and will cause the world's oil prices to skyrocket and the choices will be either to play ball with people who are going to use the royalties they receive from that oil to fund their war against you or go to war with Iraq for the third time in in 25 years. Or Iran can might invade Iraq and we can have another Iran-Iraq War that can kill another million people and if successful will make a nation hostile towards the US (but in this case, the lesser of two evils) more powerful.
I've also concerned about the humanitarian crisis going on at the moment. While so many poster here are complaining about how brutal Israel is towards the Palestinians. ISIS had killed far more people in Iraq and has stated its intentions on killing even more. Has there even been a group that has used a lot excessive violence to gain power and stated that they wish to commit genocide that once they have actually gained power they start ruling as levelheaded moderates? Maybe my history isn't up to snuff, but I can't think of a violent group that constantly stated their intentions to kill a bunch of people once they took power who all of sudden became a bunch of pussycats.
The fact remains that these people are the same people who were decapitating journalists and shooting American soldiers in the Iraq War. They have stated their goals of turning the Middle East into an Islamic Superstate. They have stated their goals to commit genocide against the Christian and Shia populations in the Middle East. They have stated their intentions to exterminate the Jews of Israel. They have stated their intentions to attack the West and use their territory for as a massive training camp for militants so they can bring Jihad around the world.
I also worry about what an ISIS victory means for Jihadis the world over. There are hundreds of militant Islamist groups around the world and plenty of "lone wolves" as well. Whenever Boko Haram or ISIS or Al Qaeda or Hamas or whomever carries out a successful attack it gives a morale boost to those groups and individuals and encourages the rest of them to push the envelope and to become more extreme. I've watched a lot of those ISIS propaganda videos and one thing they are showing is messages written in English or Arabic from Jihadis in the West with pictures of their passports sitting on the message. I've seen British, Dutch, German, American, Australian, Belgian, Canadian, French, and Danish passports in these videos and pictures. I'm probably forgetting a few. Yes, there are Jihadis in the West and difference between them being some disaffected weirdo and being an actual terrorist is the belief that they actually have a chance at accomplishing their goals. Some are second generation immigrants who adopted Islamic Fundamentalism because it made them feel closer to their ancestral home. Which is kind of ironic since many of their parents left those countries because they didn't want their children to be oppressed by fundamentalists. Some come with the explicit purpose of either becoming a terrorist or sowing the seeds of Fundamentalist Islam in the West.
I worry that if these people see that the West isn't going to do anything against them, that they will try start British or Dutch or French or even American versions of ISIS. Do I think they will win? Absolutely not. I think once Jihadis start posing an immediate existential threat to the West, the gloves will come off and even if it isn't the end of Islamic Fundamentalism it will certain be a massive setback. But that failure will still be the end result of a bloody and brutal war and I would rather deal with these groups while still in their infancy.
I also worry what the effect will be on the West if these guys or their sympathizers start attacking the West. There has already been a growth in nationalist, Fascist, and racist groups in Europe in response to an increasingly radical Muslim population in those countries. They see that government is doing nothing about a growing contingent of hostile Islamic Fundamentalists in their countries and that the government is doing nothing about it. It's not monitoring radical mosques, it's not arresting people when they call for violent overthrow of the government and mass slaughter of civilians, it's not making an effort to assimilate second generation Muslim immigrants, and the government often seems to take the side of the radicals when they come in conflict with the native population. Racist and nationalist groups tap into these frustrations and portray themselves as legitimate organizations protecting people from the "Muslim hoards". I'm not only concerned about Muslim Fundamentalists killing people, I'm also concerned about Western racists targeting innocent Muslims and people like Anders Brevik shooting up innocent people because they think they are killing collaborators.
I am not cowering in fear, but I would rather deal with this now rather see what type of horrible s--t this will mutate into.
So let me get this all straight......we went to war with a country over false pretenses over WMD's that never existed due to horrible intelligence that stated that Iraq was supporting Al Queda (a link never proven), and then when we found out that was never true, we did all for the sake of democracy and replaced a Dictator (who we help put in place in the 70's)....and we thought things would be ****** dorry?
Part of me wonders if we had left Sadam Hussein in power and never got involved, if ISIS would even exist. Knowing the history of Sadam, anyone who threatened his power ( groups like ISIS, based on their fundamentalism, would have tried Sadam) would have paid a swift end to their lives.
This cluster **** of a mess is brought to you by the good ol USA, because we never know when to stop getting involved in other countries affairs
Whenever we run outta wars and interventions,...it never takes us too long to find another "bad guy," does it?
You can almost set your clock to it. Lol
The compassion of a true liberal.
I just don't get it.
They are tens of thousands of Christians dying of thirst and hunger at the top of a mountain and somehow liberals can simply turn their backs and walk away because they are evil minority Christians.
I was against the Iraq war in 2003 because Saddam was secular and would have killed off any radicals. If we never invaded Iraq ISIS wouldn't exist today ISIS truly is a great threat, they cut off heads and kill Christians. I would like to see the U.S get in a ground war against ISIS and hopefully eliminate them and their supporters. Once again this is coming from someone who was against the previous Iraq wars.
They'd just melt into the population and we'd get our asses handed to us again...as usual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey
"Dictators"?
No, they didn't object to our support of dictators.
They objected to our support of what they believed were the wrong dictators.
"Their soil"?
Yeah...THEIR soil. You know...as in Saudi soil? Soil that ISN'T yours and where you shouldn't have had American troops.
They are tens of thousands of Christians dying of thirst and hunger at the top of a mountain and somehow liberals can simply turn their backs and walk away because they are evil minority Christians.
Meh...since you care so much, get on a plane and head to the middle east to fight ISIS.
Me? I'm just gonna eat a nice juicy steak and act like they don't exist.
ISIS isn't here, and that's all that matters. Yeah, they're kicking up some dust over there, but that's not my problem.
This country keeps coming up with imaginary enemies all the time. I'm sick of it. Sell it all you want, but I'm not a buyer.
Whenever we run outta wars and interventions,...it never takes us too long to find another "bad guy," does it?
You can almost set your clock to it. Lol
So you have no problem with genocide?
Well after all, who cares about the Armenians, or the Jews, or the people of Darfur or Rwnda? After all, they arent us, are they.....
So long as your safe little life is secure ....
Or is it?
Last edited by chuckmann; 08-09-2014 at 03:14 AM..
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