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Old 08-12-2014, 12:00 AM
 
26,190 posts, read 14,803,498 times
Reputation: 14383

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Quote:
Originally Posted by woxyroxme View Post
It's another lost battle in the culture war if anything, schools do not correct the inner city cadence and the students are at a disadvantage later in life because of it.
I remember in college a Detroit school was letting students spell in Ebonics on all assignments - and we debated it in class.

If you lower standards, and it is lowering standards to tell students that they do not have to spell properly, how can you expect them to find a wide range of middle class jobs later on in life not being able to spell properly?

Helping these students by lowering their standards holds them back later on in life.
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Old 08-12-2014, 12:09 AM
 
21,394 posts, read 10,444,504 times
Reputation: 14059
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
I remember in college a Detroit school was letting students spell in Ebonics on all assignments - and we debated it in class.

If you lower standards, and it is lowering standards to tell students that they do not have to spell properly, how can you expect them to find a wide range of middle class jobs later on in life not being able to spell properly?

Helping these students by lowering their standards holds them back later on in life.
The soft bigotry of low expectations. That was a favorite saying of Bush, but I have to agree with the sentiment. If we don't expect much from our children, they'll live up to our expectations.
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Old 08-12-2014, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Meggett, SC
11,011 posts, read 10,966,349 times
Reputation: 6189
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribdoll View Post
Just curious...do any of those areas have a significant Gullah/Gullah descended population? Wonder if there is emphasis on linguistic preservation wrapped up somewhere in this.
Yes, a large number of blacks in the Charleston metro area descend from the Gullah. For those of you who are unfamiliar with our Gullah, they are the descendants of the slaves in the region. They are somewhat unique in that they kept their language (which still is spoken today) and traditions alive even after all of these years. After the Civil War, the Gullah who remained in the area became the domestics of the white families. Their influence is a huge factor in the Lowcountry today. Everything from Sweetgrass baskets (which by law only Gullah are allowed to produce) to our cuisine have been influenced by the Gullah. If you're ever in Charleston, I highly suggest visiting many of local museums/attractions that will teach you about their rich and vibrant culture. However, to blame our educational woes on the Gullah might be a bit short sighted.

Now onto our schools here...

Here's the thing about this area which this article doesn't explain because it's targeted at locals. The school districts are very, very large county wide districts. This was required by the Federal government after desegregation. In this particular area, you have one of the worst schools in the nation (bottom 10) in the same district as one of the best in the nation (top 10). The area where the Title I school is located has been plagued with high crime, particularly due to drugs and gangs (North Charleston - a separate city from Charleston proper). Then there's the other side. The place where the very, very affluent live has one of the best schools in the nation. Million dollar plus homes there are not uncommon and the graduation rate/going to college rate is very, very high (on par with private schools). At their last graduation, they had 20 or so Ivy League bound children and scores of kids who were National Merit Finalists. So basically, you're taking a look at two total extremes in one district.

Neither the state nor the school district has ignored the problem. The low ranking high school, for example, gets about $15K per pupil whereas the high ranking high school only gets about $3K per student. For the low ranking schools, they've brought in specially selected teachers (they're allowed to do that since it's a low performing school), allowed total Federal government oversight, and have multiple community outreach programs aimed at preparing students for school (e.g. Headstart and the like). If teachers agree to teach there, the state will pay for their entire college education. They get extra salary to teach there as well. They've also made a huge effort to crack down on crime in the area, which has been quite successful of late. However, some say too successful as it's now an area undergoing gentrification from Northerners and Westerners who are moving to the area. There are certain neighborhoods that are protected by state law though. Those are primarily Gullah communities that have been Gullah since settling there right after the Civil War. However, most of those Gullah communities are actually in the very high ranking schools. Thus, I question the validity of saying Gullah has much to do with poor performance in schools.

If anything, this district has shown that throwing money at the problem is not the answer. Of note, our Senator Tim Scott graduated from this same failing high school. He visits quite often to speak with the students to show them there's another way besides crime, etc. If you ever get a chance to read Tim Scott's story, it's quite fascinating. He really is a role model for our young black students from that area. I'm not sure what the answer is to solving this problem. However, I can tell you that it's not either a lack of funding or a lack of attention from the state and/or Federal government.

Just thought you would like to know the context of the area which you are discussing. As usual, it's not always so black and white (pun somewhat intended).
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Old 08-12-2014, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Maryland
18,630 posts, read 19,338,905 times
Reputation: 6460
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribdoll View Post
Just curious...do any of those areas have a significant Gullah/Gullah descended population? Wonder if there is emphasis on linguistic preservation wrapped up somewhere in this.
Probably but the same could be said for the students who speak a completely different language. In fact isn't that the charge oftern leveled against Spanish speakers?
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Old 08-12-2014, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Maryland
18,630 posts, read 19,338,905 times
Reputation: 6460
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbel View Post
Yes, a large number of blacks in the Charleston metro area descend from the Gullah. For those of you who are unfamiliar with our Gullah, they are the descendants of the slaves in the region. They are somewhat unique in that they kept their language (which still is spoken today) and traditions alive even after all of these years. After the Civil War, the Gullah who remained in the area became the domestics of the white families. Their influence is a huge factor in the Lowcountry today. Everything from Sweetgrass baskets (which by law only Gullah are allowed to produce) to our cuisine have been influenced by the Gullah. If you're ever in Charleston, I highly suggest visiting many of local museums/attractions that will teach you about their rich and vibrant culture. However, to blame our educational woes on the Gullah might be a bit short sighted.

Now onto our schools here...

Here's the thing about this area which this article doesn't explain because it's targeted at locals. The school districts are very, very large county wide districts. This was required by the Federal government after desegregation. In this particular area, you have one of the worst schools in the nation (bottom 10) in the same district as one of the best in the nation (top 10). The area where the Title I school is located has been plagued with high crime, particularly due to drugs and gangs (North Charleston - a separate city from Charleston proper). Then there's the other side. The place where the very, very affluent live has one of the best schools in the nation. Million dollar plus homes there are not uncommon and the graduation rate/going to college rate is very, very high (on par with private schools). At their last graduation, they had 20 or so Ivy League bound children and scores of kids who were National Merit Finalists. So basically, you're taking a look at two total extremes in one district.

Neither the state nor the school district has ignored the problem. The low ranking high school, for example, gets about $15K per pupil whereas the high ranking high school only gets about $3K per student. For the low ranking schools, they've brought in specially selected teachers (they're allowed to do that since it's a low performing school), allowed total Federal government oversight, and have multiple community outreach programs aimed at preparing students for school (e.g. Headstart and the like). If teachers agree to teach there, the state will pay for their entire college education. They get extra salary to teach there as well. They've also made a huge effort to crack down on crime in the area, which has been quite successful of late. However, some say too successful as it's now an area undergoing gentrification from Northerners and Westerners who are moving to the area. There are certain neighborhoods that are protected by state law though. Those are primarily Gullah communities that have been Gullah since settling there right after the Civil War. However, most of those Gullah communities are actually in the very high ranking schools. Thus, I question the validity of saying Gullah has much to do with poor performance in schools.

If anything, this district has shown that throwing money at the problem is not the answer. Of note, our Senator Tim Scott graduated from this same failing high school. He visits quite often to speak with the students to show them there's another way besides crime, etc. If you ever get a chance to read Tim Scott's story, it's quite fascinating. He really is a role model for our young black students from that area. I'm not sure what the answer is to solving this problem. However, I can tell you that it's not either a lack of funding or a lack of attention from the state and/or Federal government.

Just thought you would like to know the context of the area which you are discussing. As usual, it's not always so black and white (pun somewhat intended).
Thanks for the insight.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,230 posts, read 17,783,848 times
Reputation: 4585
I am wondering how much credence anyone can put into an evaluation of speaking English by people in S. Carolina?
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:13 AM
 
15,072 posts, read 6,109,542 times
Reputation: 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Probably but the same could be said for the students who speak a completely different language. In fact isn't that the charge oftern leveled against Spanish speakers?
It is...but it seems like this language has been targeted in order to eliminate it, from what I am learning. So it would not be surprising if the general population is more resistant and clings to its linguistic patterns. There needs to be a strong movement to preserve culture and language while participating in general American society.
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,141,708 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribdoll View Post
It is...but it seems like this language has been targeted in order to eliminate it, from what I am learning. So it would not be surprising if the general population is more resistant and clings to its linguistic patterns. There needs to be a strong movement to preserve culture and language while participating in general American society.
Please go read southbel's post. The Gullah communities are in the high ranking schools.
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Meggett, SC
11,011 posts, read 10,966,349 times
Reputation: 6189
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribdoll View Post
It is...but it seems like this language has been targeted in order to eliminate it, from what I am learning. So it would not be surprising if the general population is more resistant and clings to its linguistic patterns. There needs to be a strong movement to preserve culture and language while participating in general American society.
I don't know if I would agree with this completely as the poor performing schools seem to have a larger problem with fatherless homes and high crime neighborhoods more than anything else. However, I would say that the Gullah children, especially those raised in our Gullah communities, should be looked upon as ESL students because it's not a slang. Gullah is an actual language and some of these kids come into school with Gullah as their first and primary language.
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:27 AM
 
15,072 posts, read 6,109,542 times
Reputation: 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbel View Post
Yes, a large number of blacks in the Charleston metro area descend from the Gullah. For those of you who are unfamiliar with our Gullah, they are the descendants of the slaves in the region. They are somewhat unique in that they kept their language (which still is spoken today) and traditions alive even after all of these years. After the Civil War, the Gullah who remained in the area became the domestics of the white families. Their influence is a huge factor in the Lowcountry today. Everything from Sweetgrass baskets (which by law only Gullah are allowed to produce) to our cuisine have been influenced by the Gullah. If you're ever in Charleston, I highly suggest visiting many of local museums/attractions that will teach you about their rich and vibrant culture. However, to blame our educational woes on the Gullah might be a bit short sighted.

Now onto our schools here...

Here's the thing about this area which this article doesn't explain because it's targeted at locals. The school districts are very, very large county wide districts. This was required by the Federal government after desegregation. In this particular area, you have one of the worst schools in the nation (bottom 10) in the same district as one of the best in the nation (top 10). The area where the Title I school is located has been plagued with high crime, particularly due to drugs and gangs (North Charleston - a separate city from Charleston proper). Then there's the other side. The place where the very, very affluent live has one of the best schools in the nation. Million dollar plus homes there are not uncommon and the graduation rate/going to college rate is very, very high (on par with private schools). At their last graduation, they had 20 or so Ivy League bound children and scores of kids who were National Merit Finalists. So basically, you're taking a look at two total extremes in one district.

Neither the state nor the school district has ignored the problem. The low ranking high school, for example, gets about $15K per pupil whereas the high ranking high school only gets about $3K per student. For the low ranking schools, they've brought in specially selected teachers (they're allowed to do that since it's a low performing school), allowed total Federal government oversight, and have multiple community outreach programs aimed at preparing students for school (e.g. Headstart and the like). If teachers agree to teach there, the state will pay for their entire college education. They get extra salary to teach there as well. They've also made a huge effort to crack down on crime in the area, which has been quite successful of late. However, some say too successful as it's now an area undergoing gentrification from Northerners and Westerners who are moving to the area. There are certain neighborhoods that are protected by state law though. Those are primarily Gullah communities that have been Gullah since settling there right after the Civil War. However, most of those Gullah communities are actually in the very high ranking schools. Thus, I question the validity of saying Gullah has much to do with poor performance in schools.

If anything, this district has shown that throwing money at the problem is not the answer. Of note, our Senator Tim Scott graduated from this same failing high school. He visits quite often to speak with the students to show them there's another way besides crime, etc. If you ever get a chance to read Tim Scott's story, it's quite fascinating. He really is a role model for our young black students from that area. I'm not sure what the answer is to solving this problem. However, I can tell you that it's not either a lack of funding or a lack of attention from the state and/or Federal government.

Just thought you would like to know the context of the area which you are discussing. As usual, it's not always so black and white (pun somewhat intended).
Oh goodness. Who is blaming the Gullah? Please take look what my posts are actually saying. The article is speaking about English specifically, and the thrust of my posts is dealing with how their patterns and preservational efforts may have affected that particular subject area.

I have just listened to accounts of how Gullah young people have been treated due to their language. One young lady said that from elementary school, teachers would be upset that they couldn't understand them and refusr to teach them. AND also, they would refuse to allow them in honors classes. If that is part of the school culture in Charleston, there is a bigger issue than what you describe above.
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