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Lol. No actually, i am just really saddened that i did not get one intelligent answer. . . . Lots of anti-abortion rhetoric, plus paranoia and assumptions. But Not. One. Intelligent. Answer.
I was (am still am) seriously seeking an intelligent answer without insults, liberal bashing, abortion or gun debates.
Anyone?
If you want a serious, intelligent answer, you must first ask a serious, intelligent question.
You didn't do that.
You ranted against conservatives, laying out a number of lies as the foundation for your post.
Well I think first off you come in with sort of a closed minded perspective, which, as a liberal, may not be the best way to approach the question
I'm a liberal. I agree with you on which freedoms I prize, but I do NOT believe conservatives are anti-freedom. Conservatives just place high priority on freedoms that we don't place priority on (eg gun ownership.) Or in some cases, both sides are arguing for a freedom that by definition takes freedom from the other side. Take abortion for example, you are concerned with the freedom of the mother and they are concerned with the freedom of the fetus. Two competing interests in a zero-sum game means neither side is ever going to be completely happy.
Also when you apply conservatism to government, the only logical inference would actually be that the more conservative (ie constrained/limited) the government is, the more freedoms the populace would have. Surely you see that the bigger the government, the more laws, the less freedom? I'm sure you'd be cheering a law banning all guns, right? I mean you'd be protecting people by getting them off the street!!! Of course conservatives would say you were taking away their right to protect THEMSELVES and make decisions about their own autonomy. Well, that's how conservatives feel about abortion. They'd like to outlaw abortion to protect the millions of people who are murdered a year. Now you'd say they are taking away your right to make a decision about YOURSELF and make decisions about your own autonomy. See the correlation here? I think the problem we liberals have is not minding imposing laws as long as we like those laws Of course, conservatives have this problem too (see abortion) but I think since they tend to be a bit warier of government intervention it's not as endemic in conservative circles.
I think you'd do well to realize being conservative is in no way diametrically opposed to freedom as you seem to think it is. We all, basically care about the same thing (freedom) and just define it differently. Let's not get caught up in battles about who is right and wrong, and instead try to figure out how we can reach middle ground that's tenable to all parties. We all love our country, we should do what we can to unite it, you know?
Best response so far.
It's kind of sad that the ideas in your reply have to be explained, though, don't you think? While it's not demonstrated very often in this forum, I work under the assumption that most people here actually do understand the above, even if they don't act like it.
Maybe I'm putting too much faith in the intelligence and objectivity of the average C-D PoC poster. I hope that's not the case, but it could very well be.
you don't even see the irony of what you just said. LOL
regardless of how illegal or misguided it may be
you forgot to add "IN MY OPINION"
self-righteous libs make me laugh
There is no irony, actually.
Conservatives what no rules. They want "freedom" to infringe on the rights of others. They want "freedom" to do whatever the hell they want, society be darned.
freedom - healthcare
- healthcare insurance based on what liberals think you need
freedom of speech
- Unless of course you don't like Obama's policies.
freedom of information
- Unless it's Lerner's e-mails
freedom to put whatever you want in your body
- Michelle Obama dictating what the kids are allowed to eat.
- No sugar or hamburgers or big sized drinks
- the right to bear arms for self protection
freedom to make a better life for yourself
- If you are successful they think you make too much and want to take it from you
Political Party
- Black conservatives are disobeying the black code are open season.
- Conservatives and tea party move to the closet
OP, you got it backwards. Liberalism is not freedom
Those who benefit from it from things like welfare and other government programs they will fight for the continuance. Those of us who pay the bill must pay the bill and keep our mouths shut or we become open season.
Lol. No actually, i am just really saddened that i did not get one intelligent answer. . . . Lots of anti-abortion rhetoric, plus paranoia and assumptions. But Not. One. Intelligent. Answer.
I was (am still am) seriously seeking an intelligent answer without insults, liberal bashing, abortion or gun debates.
Anyone?
There is no way to answer such biases as you've displayed in your original post. Many, many of your assumptions are not correct, you are assigning your perception of what "conservatives" believe without actually knowing it. If you would care to back up these perceptions with examples - say of how "conservatives" have tried to restrict freedom of speech - I believe you would find that the examples are not typical of conservatives at all.
What you are railing against is authoritarianism, not conservatism. Authoritarians infect both major political factions in this country, and at the moment, the conservatives are aligned more with the libertarian sentiment than the authoritarian one. But don't worry, that will change with the balance of power.
If you really want the Democrat party to stay nicely liberal and be as consistent in that platform as possible, you have to vote GOP. The party not in power always has more latitude to be liberal (or libertarian) than the one in power. The one in power is both tempted into authoritarian excesses, and owns some of the genuinely necessary authoritarian actions that any government must take.
I realized that the left regards those of us on the right as evil and to be defeated utterly by any means necessary. How dare anyone disagree with the left
Oh, the Irony: Hollywood Liberals Plead With State of California to Lower Their Taxes
Well I think first off you come in with sort of a closed minded perspective, which, as a liberal, may not be the best way to approach the question
I'm a liberal. I agree with you on which freedoms I prize, but I do NOT believe conservatives are anti-freedom. Conservatives just place high priority on freedoms that we don't place priority on (eg gun ownership.) Or in some cases, both sides are arguing for a freedom that by definition takes freedom from the other side. Take abortion for example, you are concerned with the freedom of the mother and they are concerned with the freedom of the fetus. Two competing interests in a zero-sum game means neither side is ever going to be completely happy.
Also when you apply conservatism to government, the only logical inference would actually be that the more conservative (ie constrained/limited) the government is, the more freedoms the populace would have. Surely you see that the bigger the government, the more laws, the less freedom? I'm sure you'd be cheering a law banning all guns, right? I mean you'd be protecting people by getting them off the street!!! Of course conservatives would say you were taking away their right to protect THEMSELVES and make decisions about their own autonomy. Well, that's how conservatives feel about abortion. They'd like to outlaw abortion to protect the millions of people who are murdered a year. Now you'd say they are taking away your right to make a decision about YOURSELF and make decisions about your own autonomy. See the correlation here? I think the problem we liberals have is not minding imposing laws as long as we like those laws Of course, conservatives have this problem too (see abortion) but I think since they tend to be a bit warier of government intervention it's not as endemic in conservative circles.
I think you'd do well to realize being conservative is in no way diametrically opposed to freedom as you seem to think it is. We all, basically care about the same thing (freedom) and just define it differently. Let's not get caught up in battles about who is right and wrong, and instead try to figure out how we can reach middle ground that's tenable to all parties. We all love our country, we should do what we can to unite it, you know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger
Best response so far.
It's kind of sad that the ideas in your reply have to be explained, though, don't you think? While it's not demonstrated very often in this forum, I work under the assumption that most people here actually do understand the above, even if they don't act like it.
Maybe I'm putting too much faith in the intelligence and objectivity of the average C-D PoC poster. I hope that's not the case, but it could very well be.
I agree completely, limetea's is an excellent post!
"Freedom" to conservatives is freedom to do whatever the hell they want, regardless of how illegal or misguided it may be. Conservatism is the most self-centered ideology there is.
Where do you get this?
Libertarians of the anarchist flavor have views like this.
The GOP (not exactly conservative) is bipolar just like the Dems and most liberals/progressives. We the people have only as much freedom as the people in power believe we should have.
Well I think first off you come in with sort of a closed minded perspective, which, as a liberal, may not be the best way to approach the question
I'm a liberal. I agree with you on which freedoms I prize, but I do NOT believe conservatives are anti-freedom. Conservatives just place high priority on freedoms that we don't place priority on (eg gun ownership.) Or in some cases, both sides are arguing for a freedom that by definition takes freedom from the other side. Take abortion for example, you are concerned with the freedom of the mother and they are concerned with the freedom of the fetus. Two competing interests in a zero-sum game means neither side is ever going to be completely happy.
Also when you apply conservatism to government, the only logical inference would actually be that the more conservative (ie constrained/limited) the government is, the more freedoms the populace would have. Surely you see that the bigger the government, the more laws, the less freedom? I'm sure you'd be cheering a law banning all guns, right? I mean you'd be protecting people by getting them off the street!!! Of course conservatives would say you were taking away their right to protect THEMSELVES and make decisions about their own autonomy. Well, that's how conservatives feel about abortion. They'd like to outlaw abortion to protect the millions of people who are murdered a year. Now you'd say they are taking away your right to make a decision about YOURSELF and make decisions about your own autonomy. See the correlation here? I think the problem we liberals have is not minding imposing laws as long as we like those laws Of course, conservatives have this problem too (see abortion) but I think since they tend to be a bit warier of government intervention it's not as endemic in conservative circles.
I think you'd do well to realize being conservative is in no way diametrically opposed to freedom as you seem to think it is. We all, basically care about the same thing (freedom) and just define it differently. Let's not get caught up in battles about who is right and wrong, and instead try to figure out how we can reach middle ground that's tenable to all parties. We all love our country, we should do what we can to unite it, you know?
This constitutional conservative says this was a excellent post!
freedom for women to do what they want with their bodies- including D and Cs (i.e., pregnancy termination)
freedom to use birth control
freedom to engage in prostitution
freedom to marry whomever wants to marry you and vice versa
freedom of information
freedom to put whatever you want in your body such as marijuana
freedom of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
freedom from oppression
freedom of self-protection
And many more . . . .
In other words, most Conservatives do NOT believe in:
freedom of religion such as Wicca, Muslim, etc
freedom for women to do what they want with their bodies- including D and Cs (i.e., pregnancy termination)
freedom to engage in prostitution
freedom to marry whomever wants to marry you and vice versa
freedom to put whatever you want in your body such as marijuana
The problem is that many freedoms are in direct opposition to other freedoms. The best example is probably the abortion issue. One side is in favor of a woman's right to choose, and the other side of an unprotected baby's right to life. Many on the pro-choice side will choose to go with life (and many will not), but having these two freedoms be unrestricted is mutually exclusive.
Another example is the "Freedom Act". One side wants American's free from threat, while the other wants to protect their liberties. So when you board a plane, which is more important? Knowing that every person has been searched and screened in advance (even though they did not commit a crime), or knowing that as an American, you have constitutional rights against search and seizure, as a citizen? Because one comes at the expense of the other.
I think this concept is, in my opinion, the cornerstone of the partisan problems we have as a country. The art of compromise is lost as a society, and people are stuck in the absolute. A "true" conservative would not support the Freedom Act, because it directly violates our constitution, but if common sense were to prevail, there would be some compromise (and people would still be unsatisfied).
I did my best to write this from a non-partisan POV. Hopefully (if I succeeded), you do not know which side I fall on.
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