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Old 08-26-2014, 06:58 AM
 
25,847 posts, read 16,525,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Per the thread title, no we cannot solve the education "gap" problem with money. Well, sort of, if paying tutors is what they mean by money.

I can tutor just about anything taught in K-12, but primarily am called on for math, science and college board prep. The reason I get called for those is because most parents who care about their kids' grades can help their kids with reading, English, history, etc. They call me because they know they can't help so much with math, science and college board prep. OK, therein is your answer on why throwing money at a school system DOES NOT HELP. Spend a gazillion dollars if you like, but eventually, little Timmy comes home and says "mom/dad, can you help me with my long division/algebra/etc?" And there is where the gap occurs.

I am not saying that black people are dumb, far from it. My top three living intellectual heroes are all black (Williams, Sowell, Rogers-Brown). But the actual, documented racist past of Jim Crow, pre-civil rights America is still echoed with transgenerational gaps in the more difficult subjects, and on top of that we've thrown 50 years of low expectation soft bigotry at blacks, which has done nothing but encourage and exacerbate that gap. And little Timmy comes home and asks for help, but Timmy's parents (who may be successful middle/upper class folks but never really did the math or science thing) say no Timmy, we cannot help you.

The first thing necessary to solve the problem is to identify and admit that no you cannot help little Timmy and need extra resources. There are tons of them. Traditional tutors like me, brick and mortars like Kumon, internet options out the wazoo, and most schools have extra study and tutoring for free. All it requires is involvement, caring, sustained effort and high expectations.

Education gaps are a vicious cycle same as abuse and alcoholism. Breaking cycles takes effort, but just throwing money at it will not work. Here's where the apologists for failure trot out a bunch of pre-canned excuses, but in the end, it all boils down to the same bottom line - everyone who succeeds tried harder and for longer than everyone who did not. I don't care if it's long division, being a shortstop, or the star of the school play. The person who on top DID MORE to get there than everyone else.
I appreciate your post and I agree with you. But I'll add that as far as the ability to learn is concerned, I think Minnesota is very well intentioned and I think they are on the right track...IF they had the support of the parents of the children.

ALL learning starts between 0-3 years old. If you don't encourage a child to learn, to read and mental discipline in that time I think they are going to struggle their whole life.

I understand that people have rights and right to privacy ect, but those children have rights as well and their parents are robbing them of a life that maybe they should have had by plunking them down in front of the TV while they drink or do whatever it is they are doing when they should be playing with their kids and especially reading to them and trying to do as many educational activities as they can come up with.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:06 AM
 
25,847 posts, read 16,525,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCityWanderer View Post
No, I just think its a waste of time discussing what people feel that has no evidence besides they convinced themselves it's true.

If you want to discuss your feelings all day, fine. Other people have lives and care about facts.
I guess to you discussing the education problems in the black community is a waste of time since you refuse to actually discuss it.

Thanks, indirectly you have contributed.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:11 AM
 
1,735 posts, read 1,769,853 times
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It's worse in MD, specifically for one of the wealthiest counties in the country with previously top rated schools:

In Montgomery schools, achievement gap widens in some areas, drawing criticism - The Washington Post


They've already spent lots of $$$ on programs to "integrate" the schools but there hasn't been much improvement. It's also worth noting that there are many Section 8 housing complexes in the county (except maybe in Potomac, Bethesda and Chevy Chase, just to keep the wealthy liberals happy) where a number of the poor-performing schools are located. There also a legislative fiat on housing in the county as well.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:20 AM
 
25,847 posts, read 16,525,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e30is View Post
It's worse in MD, specifically for one of the wealthiest counties in the country with previously top rated schools:

In Montgomery schools, achievement gap widens in some areas, drawing criticism - The Washington Post


They've already spent lots of $$$ on programs to "integrate" the schools but there hasn't been much improvement. It's also worth noting that there are many Section 8 housing complexes in the county (except maybe in Potomac, Bethesda and Chevy Chase, just to keep the wealthy liberals happy) where a number of the poor-performing schools are located. There also a legislative fiat on housing in the county as well.
I think the large mega schools are a mistake, I'm sure they are building them in Maryland just like they do in Minnesota. So many kids get lost in that chaos. I personally am for going back to smaller, neighborhood schools with a hard cap on the numbers of students. This is probably not realistic but I would like to see busing disappear almost altogether and use that money to improve the quality of the education. School districts could still put sports teams together by district and other activities, but for the every day school IMO the kid should be able to walk to their school from their home (in the cities). Also, there should be more online education from home after hours to reenforce what is learned during the day and with parental involvement required.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:30 AM
 
1,735 posts, read 1,769,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
I think the large mega schools are a mistake, I'm sure they are building them in Maryland just like they do in Minnesota. So many kids get lost in that chaos. I personally am for going back to smaller, neighborhood schools with a hard cap on the numbers of students. This is probably not realistic but I would like to see busing disappear almost altogether and use that money to improve the quality of the education. School districts could still put sports teams together by district and other activities, but for the every day school IMO the kid should be able to walk to their school from their home (in the cities). Also, there should be more online education from home after hours to reenforce what is learned during the day and with parental involvement required.
What I've been reading so far from other sources is that the top rated schools in the county are becoming overcrowded (a building of 1500 has a pop of 1800 or so) and the low performing schools are at or below capacity.

The county school system is playing with the idea of redrawing school boundaries. However, this seems to be more of a reactionary move rather than a long-term one because the superintendent and the board seems more interested in diversifying schools rather than focusing on academic performance.

Money will not be a huge problem because Montgomery County is a suburb of Washington DC where the state of MD relies most of the money from the government.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:33 AM
 
25,847 posts, read 16,525,824 times
Reputation: 16025
Quote:
Originally Posted by e30is View Post
What I've been reading so far from other sources is that the top rated schools in the county are becoming overcrowded (a building of 1500 has a pop of 1800 or so) and the low performing schools are at or below capacity.

The county school system is playing with the idea of redrawing school boundaries. However, this seems to be more of a reactionary move rather than a long-term one because the superintendent and the board seems more interested in diversifying schools rather than focusing on academic performance.
This is exactly why they have to change their thinking. If they would focus on the education problems, the diversity would happen as a natural effect of better students and their improved future.

They are trying to force something 20 years ahead of when it would happen naturally if they would just focus on THEIR JOBS. They have to find a way to get the parents on board with education.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:36 AM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,340,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
I appreciate your post and I agree with you. But I'll add that as far as the ability to learn is concerned, I think Minnesota is very well intentioned and I think they are on the right track...IF they had the support of the parents of the children.

ALL learning starts between 0-3 years old. If you don't encourage a child to learn, to read and mental discipline in that time I think they are going to struggle their whole life.

I understand that people have rights and right to privacy ect, but those children have rights as well and their parents are robbing them of a life that maybe they should have had by plunking them down in front of the TV while they drink or do whatever it is they are doing when they should be playing with their kids and especially reading to them and trying to do as many educational activities as they can come up with.
Very true......by 3 a child has learned how to learn......or, not.

After 3 it is possible.......but, not as joyful......the deep love of learning is lost somehow.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:37 AM
 
2,083 posts, read 1,620,580 times
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No matter how much money we throw at education, it doesn't effect the outcome of our schools. If a kid has no desire, support or incentive to learn, they're not going to perform. Fixing education needs to focus on fixing the family first, which will result in improved education outcomes.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:43 AM
 
20,524 posts, read 15,901,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driller1 View Post
Very true......by 3 a child has learned how to learn......or, not.

After 3 it is possible.......but, not as joyful......the deep love of learning is lost somehow.
It def starts with the "parents". If the parents are fools; then the kid will probably have a whole lot MORE trouble in life. It ain't a "race" thing; it's a "culture" thing.

Word is the Head Start programs do help many times in making an end run against loser families giving the kids a chance at life when older.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:44 AM
Status: "Apparently the worst poster on CD" (set 27 days ago)
 
27,646 posts, read 16,129,622 times
Reputation: 19065
When are they gonna teach white kids how to jump higher and run faster?
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