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Old 08-30-2014, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,366 posts, read 9,741,208 times
Reputation: 6662

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
At least be factually accurate, they're supporting an extension not an improvement. The same method of background check is performed now for commercial sales as would be performed if this passes, it just will be more broadly applied.



If you're focused on the weeds you might see it that way, but it's permitting government to regulate the sales between private citizens. Let's hope that you're so for this when you are required to sell your used car to a dealer for under market value (because someone lobbied to end private sales of motorvehicles), or homes require the use of real estate agents both for public safety reasons of course. Once a precedent is set that government can regulate the sale of private property between two individuals, then it opens the door to government regulation of all sales of private property between individuals.

CLAPPING LIKE A MADMAN!!!

Maybe the ideal of freedom and the protections the founding father put into place is simply a concept they can't understand.

When the government takes anything from citizens, it's an open door to expanding the parameters. It never fails.
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Old 08-30-2014, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Itinerant
8,278 posts, read 6,237,592 times
Reputation: 6681
Quote:
Originally Posted by borregokid View Post
I bought a home recently and it had to be registered in my name and I pay taxes.
Nope you didn't. You bought conditional permission to own that property, you don't own it, you lease it through the taxes you pay (surprise). If you owned it you would not pay taxes on it, nor could you be subject to eminent domain, look up allodial title.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borregokid View Post
I have bought cars for many years and all have been registered.
They're registered for use on public roads, not for ownership, anyone can buy and own a car, truck, motorcycle insured, or not, licensed or not, registered or not. To use it on the roads requires license, insurance and registration, to use it on private property requires none of those things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borregokid View Post
I have bought and sold several gun and there were no regulations.
Then you probably did so illegally, there are several regulations regarding the sale of firearms even for private sales, for example you cannot sell to someone not resident in your state. That's what's known as gun trafficking, welcome to self incrimination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borregokid View Post
So what you are saying is a transaction requiring a licensing office similar to the county or a private office with cars or the county office with property is "big brother" when it comes to guns? By the way when I sold or bought cars I didnt go through a dealer and they were all registered.
But you bought and sold them, The principle doesn't just apply to firearms, as I said if you're looking at the weeds it just appears that way because you're ignorant of the law.

Let's take a different example to try to get you out of the weeds, suppose you want to sell your smartphone, only because of regulation of firearms sales between private entities (people) Apple, Microsoft, and Google have lobbied to prohibit sales as a violation of the licensing agreement (you permitted regulation of one type of privately owned item, therefore legally all items can be so regulated), you can return the phone to them for a discount on a new phone, but cannot sell it to say your neighbor without breaking the law. That's the logical extension.
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Old 08-30-2014, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,844,802 times
Reputation: 7399
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Since Citizens United, we live in a society where money speaks louder than words and corporations are people. Gates isn't a politician, he doesn't actually need to debate anyone when it comes to where he puts his money.
.
Who said he did? I didn't say he should be required to do so, I just think if he's passionate enough to donate a million bucks to a cause, he should have no problem debating the facts. So while he's not required to debate it, it's pretty telling that he declines to do so.
Quote:
Do you have to prove yourself to others with where you put your money? I doubt it
Are you talking about donations to the NRA, etc? No I don't have to prove myself, I'm not required to do it, but I'm more than willing to. My presence on this thread and other gun related threads proves it.
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Old 08-30-2014, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,844,802 times
Reputation: 7399
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
It is just amazing how much the right wingers are against any form of background check when it comes to buying a gun
You're starting out with a straw-man, a false premise. The background check on all sales is not the main point of contention here, it's the mandated background check on all loans and transfers.

Say I want to loan a hunting rifle to my buddy, I'd have to get a background check done. YES, there is an exemption in the law for hunters, but that only applies during the hunt, and while both parties are in an area where hunting is illegal. If we are staying at a motel room and my freind that borrowed my gun wants to clean the firearm before returning it to me, that is illegal, because the gun can no longer be in his possesion.... the last I checked, motel rooms are not legal hunting grounds.

If I'm an instructor and want to teach a class, I can not legally hand my gun over to my student. YES, there are exemptions for people inside a legally defined range, but not all gun safety classes take place at a certified range. Some take place at churches, schools, or even private property. That will be illegal under I-594

You're telling me this is "gunsense"?
Quote:
And many seem to act like their world is falling apart when they have to show that they are of sane mind and void of criminal status to buy one.
Nah, not really. See, the flaw in this law for people with a criminal record or mentally disturbed people is, they can just ignore it. Who's going to know? The way I understand it, Handguns have to be registered in washington state, but long guns and shotguns don't, so who's going to know if someone sells a long gun to a criminal without a background check? How are they going to prove it? It was never registered, so they wouldn't have any idea who sold it to the criminal, because they don't know who owned it to begin with. As far as handguns, do you really think thug A, who already ILLEGALY posses a handgun, is going to rush out and get a background check on thug B before selling him a handgun? What a joke!

The only people this law will effect are those who have a desire to stay on the right side of the law to begin with.
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Old 08-30-2014, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,844,802 times
Reputation: 7399
All I know is that if this intitiative fails, it's going to be an epic blow to the gun control movement in this country. That's why Washingtonians need to educate themselves and turn out on election day in a big big way.......

This very well could be the death knell to the Bloomburg anti-gun machine.
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Old 08-30-2014, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,283,093 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
All I know is that if this intitiative fails, it's going to be an epic blow to the gun control movement in this country. That's why Washingtonians need to educate themselves and turn out on election day in a big big way.......

This very well could be the death knell to the Bloomburg anti-gun machine.
If it does fail, imagine the reaction of all those billionaires who thought that they could purchase an election like they do a yacht. Especially Nick Hanauer, who is not even a billionaire (according to him), and has so far contributed $1.3 million to I-594.

I believe there is a reasonable chance of failure. Alan Gottlieb is running the opposition, and has a pretty good track record. The last gun control initiative went down 71-29 with him running the campaign. Everyone, me included, figured that it would pass when announced in Spring/summer of 1997, and all the polling pointed to passage.

This proposal has enough problems that it should be easy to shoot down (pun intended). And lastly, this is a mid term election, which means that the low info voter is less of a factor. Gun owners will be informed and motivated, and they will turn out.
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Old 08-30-2014, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,844,802 times
Reputation: 7399
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
If it does fail, imagine the reaction of all those billionaires who thought that they could purchase an election like they do a yacht. Especially Nick Hanauer, who is not even a billionaire (according to him), and has so far contributed $1.3 million to I-594.

I believe there is a reasonable chance of failure. Alan Gottlieb is running the opposition, and has a pretty good track record. The last gun control initiative went down 71-29 with him running the campaign. Everyone, me included, figured that it would pass when announced in Spring/summer of 1997, and all the polling pointed to passage.

This proposal has enough problems that it should be easy to shoot down (pun intended). And lastly, this is a mid term election, which means that the low info voter is less of a factor. Gun owners will be informed and motivated, and they will turn out.
I just went and read the actual text of the Bill four times. This is such a horrible law. It's one thing to be for universal background checks, (which I'm not ) but this is another animal entirely. If people bother to study the text of the bill, and can comprehend it's ramifications, the bill should go down in flames.

Just an example, if I hand a gun to my freind to examine, we're both criminals under I-594!!! Someone challenged me on that assertion in another thread, but I can't find the language in the bill that would exempt that activity, probably because it isn't there. Just goes to show how uninformed people are on what an atrocious law this really is.

You live in WA state wutitiz? If so, then good! You can make a difference. Get your grass-roots on and inform anyone you can what the ramifications of this law will be.
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Old 08-30-2014, 10:06 PM
 
9,001 posts, read 10,136,385 times
Reputation: 14525
Quote:
Originally Posted by steven_h View Post
Gates to gun control is Oprah to water. He can afford to buy/skirt whatever regulation he deems that all others should keep. It's the typical elite notion that "they know what's best for EVERYBODY ELSE" while any regulation he spawns can ultimately be skirted by... the elites.

He can access Class III weapons no matter how expensive the FFL permits and weapons may become. What's 25-50-75-$100k to this guy? He's nothing but a monetized thug wielding a federal note bat.
Best post I've read in recent memory in this particular forum

Thank you sir
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Old 08-30-2014, 10:14 PM
 
2,672 posts, read 2,706,478 times
Reputation: 1041
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
I just went and read the actual text of the Bill four times. This is such a horrible law. It's one thing to be for universal background checks, (which I'm not ) but this is another animal entirely. If people bother to study the text of the bill, and can comprehend it's ramifications, the bill should go down in flames.

Just an example, if I hand a gun to my freind to examine, we're both criminals under I-594!!! Someone challenged me on that assertion in another thread, but I can't find the language in the bill that would exempt that activity, probably because it isn't there. Just goes to show how uninformed people are on what an atrocious law this really is.

You live in WA state wutitiz? If so, then good! You can make a difference. Get your grass-roots on and inform anyone you can what the ramifications of this law will be.
You can do your job too. Please send you money too Alan Gottlieb...I think he is looking for a new yacht.
DONATE | I-591 Protect Our Gun Rights | YES on I-591I-591 Protect Our Gun Rights | YES on I-591
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Old 08-30-2014, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Los Awesome, CA
8,653 posts, read 6,103,049 times
Reputation: 3368
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Gun-rights advocate challenges Bill Gates to debate I-594 | Politics Northwest | Seattle Times


Longtime gun rights advocate Alan Gottlieb of Bellevue, Washington challenged Bill Gates to put his mouth where his money is and debate initiative 594, a gun control measure to which Gates recently donated $1 million.

The Gates Foundation responded with a statement:



In other words, no debate, we prefer to win the argument by our tried and true method of outspending the opposition.
Why should he debate an advocate? I don't think Bill Gates has the skill set to debate well... But that doesn't mean he's wrong...
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