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Thank you for admitting that socialized healthcare is a socialist idea. It is actually a European conservative idea and not a socialist idea. European conservatives are statists just as many pale conservatives in United States. They share that trait with each other. American conservatives are different from European conservatives because they advocate libertarianism. I oppose socialized healthcare because it is a government tool for political and social control. There can be good governments and governance but in the end it is all about who is control. United Kingdom is controlled by a bunch of left-wing, by name only, (European) conservatives that cares nothing for United Kingdom and it is people. They are extremist-progressives that work for the big banks and the European Union rather than what is best for Britain.
As you understand - when it comes to many social issues – United States is just far-right of anything of what you got. Your UK establishment calls Front National (including UKIP) for “fascists” but they sound like (never mind the socialism within FN) like the center-right within the Republican Party.
They cannot - so what? I believe people should finance their own healthcare (being able to or not) and if they cannot they have to ask people who can for help and that should be regular people and not the government. In a free market economy there would be foundations, churches and non-governmental organizations that would help the poor finance their healthcare. This is how the world looked like before the European welfare state, which was introduced in the 1920 in Europe and in part in United States.
Couldn't find any evidence could you?
Well here and in the US you are allowed to have your opinions. But imo the NHS is very important to British society and it we need it for the poor. I bet your not a poor person living in a flat with 3 children? Well how can you say they should ask people if you don't understand what they are going through.
Also, your making points that an extremist would say, no ordinary person would say the NHS is effectively supporting the Nazi's, or say that the conservatives aren't initialed to the NHS - You have no idea.
However, we can agree on some things. Britain has become to left wing and the Conservative party in this country has become the not conservative party! As Melanie Phillips describes well:
Card carrying Labour Party members get the best treatment huh? Gimme that popcorn.
I get a kick out of his infantile use of the terms Nazi, communist and liberal being interchangeable descriptors for the same entity. Half the population of his country he's just called either Nazis or communists without knowing squat about either of them it would appear.
Well Eddy; your opinions are truly off the wall in their ability to ignore facts in evidence to the contrary.
Churches and foundations to help the poor? Good grief!
"If you support NHS you are Nazi, communists or a liberal"
Aside from that being on the face of it a completely STUPID Statement; brother! Your ******* is astounding when you consider that none of the three can co-exist within their descriptions. Hitler was anything but a freak'n liberal or communist and ......cripes, I'm yelling down a mineshaft here. You have not made any kind of cognitive sense commencing with your first post in this thread.
Eddy; I think you should run upstairs and take the pop tart out of the toaster oven like your mom told you to before she left for work.
These kind of vicious liberal attacks are beneath me. How about putting forward a valid argument instead of coming with smears? I don’t play the liberal game and I don’t buy into BS. We all know that you liberals are responsible for horrific crimes all around the world. We (real) conservatives and libertarians are tired of you bad attitude and lies. We represent United States not that hired gun in Washington. Americans don’t buy into equality and that the state should run our lives. In fact, we detest not only your liberal politics but liberals as a people. I promise you (and you can see it in Europe) that you are soon gone in western politics. The West is slowly awakening from decades or political correctness and liberal lies. In United States we are all armed and pissed. We don’t need government to provide us with a winter coat. Our love for freedom, country and flag keeps us warm at night. Just as we defeated England in the revolution, the Nazis in the Second World War and the Communists in Cold war we will defeat you. We are a nation under God and we will never apologize for being Americans.
Thank you for admitting that socialized healthcare is a socialist idea. It is actually a European conservative idea and not a socialist idea. European conservatives are statists just as many pale conservatives in United States. They share that trait with each other. American conservatives are different from European conservatives because they advocate libertarianism. I oppose socialized healthcare because it is a government tool for political and social control. There can be good governments and governance but in the end it is all about who is control. United Kingdom is controlled by a bunch of left-wing, by name only, (European) conservatives that cares nothing for United Kingdom and it is people. They are extremist-progressives that work for the big banks and the European Union rather than what is best for Britain.
As you understand - when it comes to many social issues – United States is just far-right of anything of what you got. Your UK establishment calls Front National (including UKIP) for “fascists†but they sound like (never mind the socialism within FN) like the center-right within the Republican Party.
They cannot - so what? I believe people should finance their own healthcare (being able to or not) and if they cannot they have to ask people who can for help and that should be regular people and not the government. In a free market economy there would be foundations, churches and non-governmental organizations that would help the poor finance their healthcare. This is how the world looked like before the European welfare state, which was introduced in the 1920 in Europe and in part in United States.
Couldn't find any evidence could you?
Well here and in the US you are allowed to have your opinions. But imo the NHS is very important to British society and it we need it for the poor. I bet your not a poor person living in a flat with 3 children? Well how can you say they should ask people if you don't understand what they are going through.
Also, your making points that an extremist would say, no ordinary person would say the NHS is effectively supporting the Nazi's, or say that the conservatives aren't initialed to the NHS - You have no idea.
However, we can agree on some things. Britain has become to left wing and the Conservative party in this country has become the not conservative party! As Melanie Phillips describes well:
This clip just gives my goose bumps and positive butterflies every-time! However I wouldn't call our current political system extreme...
Melanie Phillips is very correct. As I wrote before I’m aware of those European conservatives do support a large welfare or at least a larger welfare state than in United. There are three kind of systems in welfare-systems in the Western World.
The Social-Democratic model: A universal welfare model found in Scandinavia and United Kingdom
The (European) Conservative model: A smaller welfare that provides for families rather than individuals. It is found in Southern Europe and Central in particular Germany, Switzerland, Austria and Italy.
The (American) Neo-Liberal model: Small or non-existent welfare state were individuals by themselves or through help from private organizations provide welfare services to people. It is found in Australia and United States.
I understand why United Kingdom have socialized welfare in certain extent and why many conservatives support it. From an American perspective I don’t see the welfare state as needed though I understand why it is on place. Liberalism as problem goes deeper than a conflict about the size of welfare system which Melaine Phillips so fittingly explained. My opposition to liberalism and neo-conservatism stems deeper than a fight over the size of the welfare state. It is a smaller issue when everything comes about – though I think the American system is better in the sense that government cannot control people and force them into adopting liberal ideals. Remember, it is all about who is controlling the welfare-system – it can be used for good and evil. I rather want no one is controlling it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz
So you want the poor to BEG for help. Got it.
People didn’t beg before the welfare state. Amish in United States receive no help but they help each. In a free-market economy people will be forced to help each other out and those who are evil-doer and don’t subscribe for what most people believe in will not receive any help because people will not help people with a vicious agenda. Danish sociologist Gøsta Esping-Andersen argued in “Three world Welfare of welfare capitalism” (1990) that the Social-democratic welfare state is best because it makes people less depended on each other and therefore could live for themselves rather than for other people. He welcomed it and therefore he was a support of such system.
The (neo) liberal model forced people into civil social control, meaning that they were forced (if they wanted help) to subscribe to the civil norms, often conservative norms. According to him and many other social-researchers this explains why United States is so much conservative in the civil society than in Western-European societies. American women bare more children than European women and there is of course an instrumental reason for it. Children help their elderly parents and provide extra resources to the family through work.
Today, United States is more or less a European Welfare state but not entirely – which of course have led to rifts in the once very family-oriented and conservative American civil society.
I don’t oppose the welfare state as a tool to crack down on poor Americans but because I want to return to a time were conservative ideals is the norm knowing that less government means more social-conservatism in the mainstream society. I cannot care less for insurance corporations and corporate hospitals. These are heavily subsidized by the federal government – and make a unreasonable profit on poor people mainly through tax dollars. I understand what your stance stems from although I don’t agree that is the best vessel to conservative western ideals and in extension the people of the west.
Last edited by Eddybrown; 09-02-2014 at 02:40 PM..
To be honest, the UK does have a privatized System where people can decide to pay insurance if they want to. If you do get health insurance than you do get a better healthcare service... But at leased the poor get a good health service of some kind!
They do here too. We call it Medicaid.
There's a gap between being able to afford health insurance and being eligible for medicaid. Closing that gap is a good idea. But closing that gap by instituting government mandates controlling all insurance for all Americans is not the way to close that gap experienced by a few Americans.
These kind of vicious liberal attacks are beneath me. How about putting forward a valid argument instead of coming with smears? I don’t play the liberal game and I don’t buy into BS. We all know that you liberals are responsible for horrific crimes all around the world. We (real) conservatives and libertarians are tired of you bad attitude and lies. We represent United States not that hired gun in Washington. Americans don’t buy into equality and that the state should run our lives. In fact, we detest not only your liberal politics but liberals as a people. I promise you (and you can see it in Europe) that you are soon gone in western politics. The West is slowly awakening from decades or political correctness and liberal lies. In United States we are all armed and pissed. We don’t need government to provide us with a winter coat. Our love for freedom, country and flag keeps us warm at night. Just as we defeated England in the revolution, the Nazis in the Second World War and the Communists in Cold war we will defeat you. We are a nation under God and we will never apologize for being Americans.
Smears, vicious attacks beneath you? This from the fellow who referred to the bulk of the citizenry of any number of higher developed countries as being NAZIS or communists for supporting U/NHS fer chrissake!
Duuuh! That hired gun was put into Washington by a majority of YOU. Now you're claiming pride for NOT believing in the democratic process.
Whoohah; defeated England and the Nazis all by yourselves did you? Haar, you're a real beauty.
AND nope you're not all armed and pissed, just some of you are either. Uh Eddie, it's not freedom, love of country or that flag you've wrapped yourself in keeping you warm at night. Your older brother sleeping in the lower bunk would tell you if you slept one night without the rubber sheet.
Defeat us? Say what? Along with your above claims you're not really a devotee of your own history are you Eddy?
You're a hoot Eddie; I bet Texans are proud to have you.
These kind of vicious liberal attacks are beneath me. How about putting forward a valid argument instead of coming with
smears?
Beneath you? Lol! That's all you've been doing!
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