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Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 30to66at55
If we fought a war instead of keeping the generals on a political leash there wouldn't be any mistakes.
WHAT leash were the Generals on who gave us glowing reports of the Iraqi Army they were training? You know, the Iraqi Army that ran when push came to shove?
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,373,658 times
Reputation: 40731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathy4017
Yep. If we were allowed to conduct a war properly--as in WWII with the atomic bomb--we could have won in Vietnam and any other place where we get involved.
No, we couldn't have won because there wasn't a damn thing in that war to win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathy4017
Having said that, I would prefer that the US be a lot more isolationist than it is. I wish we had never gotten involved in Vietnam or Iraq.
What is going to be different this time? Or will this be yet another 10 year war with absolutely no results and a trillion dollar price tag? Even if you cut off the head of these groups, two new ones grow back. Why don't Americans learn from their mistakes?
Why don't you ask the Germans, the Japanese, Saddam Hussein,....
Why don't you ask the Germans, the Japanese, Saddam Hussein,....
Buy a history book, it'll do you good.
(Maybe not....)
Why put Germany and Japan in the same league as Saddam Hussein? We defeated Germany and Japan, and then helped them rebuild their countries. Both countries are better off today than they were before we went there. Saddam Hussein is dead, but had we stayed and had the resolve to rebuild Iraq like we did Germany and Japan (and that means staying and having a base there), then the Iraqi people might be better off in a few years as well. I'm not sure though as from what I understand that region was never really a cohesive country until after WWI, so maybe it's impossible to build a strong national pride and willingness to fight off an enemy when there are so many different interests and people with thousand-year old grievances.
Are you saying the only way to conduct a war properly and win is by using an atomic bomb?
In some cases, that's the only thing that's going to work. Sometimes the hard choices have to be made, but that's not really much of a possibility today.
Do you think that we could have ended WWII without it?
They can't. I've said elsewhere, you cannot blow up an idea or belief. In regards to this particular silliness in the middle east that has been going on and on and on, it is our intervention over there which continues to make them hate us more and more over the years, and rightfully so. We would not tolerate foreign nations trying to "mold" us either. Insanity. But then our government's employers (the bankers) will always make a pile of dough killing Americans for any reason that they can dream up.
I want terrorists dead. I think the majority of the silent Muslims out there think the same.
What is going to be different this time? Or will this be yet another 10 year war with absolutely no results and a trillion dollar price tag? Even if you cut off the head of these groups, two new ones grow back. Why don't Americans learn from their mistakes?
It is worse than that, Our invasion of Iraq directly led to the creation of ISIL.
The people who supported the disastrous Iraq War are directly responsible for the existence of ISIL.
We arm the mujahideen in Afghanistan and we get the Taliban and Al Qaeda as a result.
We invade Iraq and get ISIL as a result.
And the people who espouse the political ideology that was for the Iraq War are still running their fat mouths about continuing their disastrous policies.
These conservatives have a proven track record of being 100% wrong about everything in Iraq.
conservatives who pushed us into this war which led to the creation of ISIL got nothing right in their Iraq war fantasies.
Yet you have not seen many conservatives admit hey we were wrong. We need to re examine our thinking.
I mean anyone can run down the list of the predictions that people against the invasion of Iraq had against the war, and compare those with the predictions from conservatives who universally were cheer leading for us to invade Iraq.
The people against the war were mostly right and while conservatives got nothing right.
In some cases, that's the only thing that's going to work. Sometimes the hard choices have to be made, but that's not really much of a possibility today.
Do you think that we could have ended WWII without it?
Allies won the war with Germany . The U.S and allies were fighting the Japanese and you could have won that war without the "bomb" but to what cost in terms of lives lost.
The U.S. has not fought a war alone until Vietnam.
It is worse than that, Our invasion of Iraq directly led to the creation of ISIL.
The people who supported the disastrous Iraq War are directly responsible for the existence of ISIL.
We arm the mujahideen in Afghanistan and we get the Taliban and Al Qaeda as a result.
We invade Iraq and get ISIL as a result.
And the people who espouse the political ideology that was for the Iraq War are still running their fat mouths about continuing their disastrous policies.
These conservatives have a proven track record of being 100% wrong about everything in Iraq.
conservatives who pushed us into this war which led to the creation of ISIL got nothing right in their Iraq war fantasies.
Yet you have not seen many conservatives admit hey we were wrong. We need to re examine our thinking.
I mean anyone can run down the list of the predictions that people against the invasion of Iraq had against the war, and compare those with the predictions from conservatives who universally were cheer leading for us to invade Iraq.
The people against the war were mostly right and while conservatives got nothing right.
Yes, the Iraq invasion was a rung on the ladder to the creation of ISIS (I refuse to call them ISIL), but by the time we left Iraq it was a pretty stable country. Had we actually kept forces there like we did in Germany and Japan, perhaps we could have really turned that region into a good place.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ISIS a creation of the Syrian conflict that we have refused to get involved with beyond actually arming the rebels (who turned out to be ISIS)? So, while I agree that the invasion of Iraq and removal of Saddam Hussein from power in that region caused many of the problems we see today, I'm not so willing to blame it all on conservatives and GW Bush. Obama shares a very big part of that blame.
It is worse than that, Our invasion of Iraq directly led to the creation of ISIL.
The people who supported the disastrous Iraq War are directly responsible for the existence of ISIL.
We arm the mujahideen in Afghanistan and we get the Taliban and Al Qaeda as a result.
We invade Iraq and get ISIL as a result.
And the people who espouse the political ideology that was for the Iraq War are still running their fat mouths about continuing their disastrous policies.
These conservatives have a proven track record of being 100% wrong about everything in Iraq.
conservatives who pushed us into this war which led to the creation of ISIL got nothing right in their Iraq war fantasies.
Yet you have not seen many conservatives admit hey we were wrong. We need to re examine our thinking.
I mean anyone can run down the list of the predictions that people against the invasion of Iraq had against the war, and compare those with the predictions from conservatives who universally were cheer leading for us to invade Iraq.
The people against the war were mostly right and while conservatives got nothing right.
Best I can tell this goes way back to at least the 70's when the US stuck it's nose into the civil war in Lebanon. An Anti US Islamic group bombed the US embassy in Beirut and killed about 60 people in 1983.
( I missed Mircea who has a better handle on this history than most people)
It seems that every US action has eventually caused a reaction.
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