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And then what? Would we just have homeless families on the streets.
They would be taken care of by the community and/or work enough hours to support themselves. Coupled with low cost educational programs in certain trades/fields that help provide skills for long term stable employment.
It is amazing people were able to survive without a government to feed them every meal and put a roof over head.
They would be taken care of by the community and/or work enough hours to support themselves. Coupled with low cost educational programs in certain trades/fields that help provide skills for long term stable employment.
It is amazing people were able to survive without a government to feed them every meal and put a roof over head.
But we in the community would pay to take care of them. How is this fair. And where do you think the government gets the money for these programs......from us. Why do we allow companies to get richer and richer on the backs of the middle class.
They would be taken care of by the community and/or work enough hours to support themselves. Coupled with low cost educational programs in certain trades/fields that help provide skills for long term stable employment.
"They would be" just admit you don't have a plan since you just don't care. There are no trades and field that provide stable employment in 2014. Youre living in the past. Lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life
It is amazing people were able to survive without a government to feed them every meal and put a roof over head.
Thats the thing - they weren't. Read a little about life in XIX century america. About starving children, children prostitution and overall glamour of social life then.
But we in the community would pay to take care of them. How is this fair. And where do you think the government gets the money for these programs......from us. Why do we allow companies to get richer and richer on the backs of the middle class.
The government doesn't pay for the programs. Donations run the programs. More of the money is kept in the community, less corruption/theft, the people running the programs have a vested interest in providing quality services.
What programs do you think all those evil rich people donate to lower their tax burden?
Nope. Nobody said that. That just your imagination. $200-300 a week that you have to divide between rent and food, that's another ball game. Add clothing, gas for your car and insurance ( you have to get to work somehow, right) and it becomes impossible.
Thats what you're afraid of, right? Thats your $20 an hour will suddenly become just a tad over the minimum wage, isn't it? Lol
Again, nobody ever claimed its the conservatives fault. Again, your imagination is playing tricks on you.
And the do. They take classes, gain skills, in this economy landing a good job is not easy, it takes time and they shouldn't be starving in the meantime. Should they?
noone said it, but you just said it in YOUR OWN POST!!!!!! Your biggest rebuttle is that minimum wage causes people to starve. Now you claim that you aren't saying that this whole time. Minimum wage covers the bare essentials...it does not however support all the luxuries you may want. And it is not intended to.
What about he millions of homeless, do they deserve to starve? What about the 1.6 million homeless kids do THEY deserve to starve? The homeless vets? Are you going to offer up housing and "liveable wage" for them to not starve too?
Landing a GOOD job isn't supposed to be EASY. Yet, you are advocating that it should be EASY to make XX amount of dollars.
the problem isn't minimum wage, its WAGE STAGNATION.
I make a different figure than the 20 an hour you ASSUME, but lets just say I did. And suddenly minimum is 15. You are now not forcing the lower class up, you are forcing the middle class down. When the middle America realizes that hey, i'm not so middle class anymore you think they will "tolerate" that? You think that all of a sudden the non skilled labors making nearly as much is acceptable? You think that the answer is to put the brunt of suffering on the middle class? There will never be no such thing as simply middle class and upper class only. there will always be a lower class.
My point is, if minimum wage goes up to more than DOUBLE its current rate, people will lose jobs, unskilled workers will be forced out, unemployment will increase.....OR all the pay scales will increase proportionally and we will be right back where we are now.
Also, if you would look bad to the first response i made to you about a dozen pages ago, refuting the dreams you post you will see that I'm all for minimum wage increase to $10-11 an hour, because if it raised with inflation this is where we would be at. Not DOUBLE
Quote:
Originally Posted by random_thoughts
Who is to say which skill is valuable and which is not? Movie stars get paid more than neurosurgeons. Football players more than Nobel prize winners who work on breakthrough drugs. Is throwing a ball and running more valuable skills than 2 PhDs and 250 publications in 14 languages?
Nonsense and more nonsense. Our conservatives are simply morally corrupt.
Here you blame the conservatives....The only imagination at work is the circles you are speaking in. You're stumbling over them its so bad.
"They would be" just admit you don't have a plan since you just don't care. There are no trades and field that provide stable employment in 2014. Youre living in the past. Lol
Thats the thing - they weren't. Read a little about life in XIX century america. About starving children, children prostitution and overall glamour of social life then.
I am not living in the past, jobs are available if you have skills worth employing. This coupled with stopping the import of labor from other countries which drives wages down would help.
Being a loser is irrelevant. Even losers don't deserve to starve.
Because the middle class continues to be duped into voting for Republican crooks that push the agenda of the 1%. That agenda includes tax breaks for billionaires and corporations at the expense of the Middle Class.
no the PEOPLE continue to be duped by lobbyists and politicians. If you think the democrats are so saintly you are dead wrong
The government doesn't pay for the programs. Donations run the programs. More of the money is kept in the community, less corruption/theft, the people running the programs have a vested interest in providing quality services.
What programs do you think all those evil rich people donate to lower their tax burden?
I never said they were evil nor did I say anything about them donating to lower their tax burden. This thread is about a livable wage. These big corporations can afford to pay their employees more but they don't because it would take more money out of their pocket.
BIG corporations can....small business not some much. So what happens to them? you close the door on tens of thousands of businesses because they don't have the multi million dollar profit margins and you just extorted the economy by mandating a "liveable" wage more than double the current minimum?
what has been solved? massive jobs losses? higher priced goods?
Furthermore, gov't intervention on attempting to punish big business for greed has proven to fail numerous times. For example when they started saying what fees banks could and couldnt charge....bring in the debit card and checking account annual fees etc.
business will get theres regardless thats what people fail to understand.
And to advocate that the government can do a better job than the private market at nearly anything is in error. People advocating for BIGGER government, more intervention etc etc etc....yet there is so much fraud and waste by gov't entities its absolutely ludacrious
noone said it, but you just said it in YOUR OWN POST!!!!!!
Do you have some reading and comprehension problems? I never said $200-300 a week is too little to afford food. $200-300 that has to be divided between food, shelter and other expenses that not enough. Is is so hard to understand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by enigmadsm
Your biggest rebuttle is that minimum wage causes people to starve. Now you claim that you aren't saying that this whole time. Minimum wage covers the bare essentials...it does not however support all the luxuries you may want. And it is not intended to.
Minimum wage pay doesnt cover bare essentials and thats why if you make the minimum wage you still qualify for food stamps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enigmadsm
What about he millions of homeless, do they deserve to starve? What about the 1.6 million homeless kids do THEY deserve to starve? The homeless vets? Are you going to offer up housing and "liveable wage" for them to not starve too?
Of course. What kind of country would we be if we allowed people to starve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by enigmadsm
Landing a GOOD job isn't supposed to be EASY. Yet, you are advocating that it should be EASY to make XX amount of dollars.
the problem isn't minimum wage, its WAGE STAGNATION.
I make a different figure than the 20 an hour you ASSUME, but lets just say I did. And suddenly minimum is 15. You are now not forcing the lower class up, you are forcing the middle class down. When the middle America realizes that hey, i'm not so middle class anymore you think they will "tolerate" that? You think that all of a sudden the non skilled labors making nearly as much is acceptable? You think that the answer is to put the brunt of suffering on the middle class? There will never be no such thing as simply middle class and upper class only. there will always be a lower class.[/quote]
Why does it bother you what other people are making? Enjoy your life and let other enjoy it
Quote:
Originally Posted by enigmadsm
My point is, if minimum wage goes up to more than DOUBLE its current rate, people will lose jobs, unskilled workers will be forced out, unemployment will increase.....OR all the pay scales will increase proportionally and we will be right back where we are now.
No, you made it clear that you are afraid of your own status more than anything else. Don't pretend that you'd like to keep others down for "their own good" lol
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