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But we don't two millions of new emt's.... It's not a solution for everybody.
No it isn't a solution for everybody because there's no such thing. Raising the minimum wage to $15 isn't a solution for everybody either, and it's downright destructive to many. With more than 1,500 separate economies in the US alone, there cannot be a universal wage floor that creates a one size fits all solution.
That's the freaking point. You think there is a solution when there isn't. Poverty has no solution because allowed to function as we choose, we all choose differently, in thousands of ways, every minute of every hour of every day. You cannot choose for others, and that's why "solutions" to poverty fail.
$15 an hour sounds like a lot, but what if the person earning $15 has 6 kids and lives in SanFran or Manhattan? Should the "wage" be such that no matter where you live, how big your family is, or what lifestyle choices you've made, one full time earner doing any job under the sun can provide for a proper, comfortable living for that family? Okie doke, get back to me with what that wage needs to be for the breadwinner of a family of four who lives in 1500 sq feet in Manhattan, and such that they need no public assistance at all, since nobody who works full time should be required to have public assistance/ By all means, give me the one size fits all number that solves that family of 4's issues in Manhattan.
If the min jumps to $15/hr., does nobody see anything wrong with a fast food cashier earning the same as an EMT?
Yes, a few people will get raises to compensate for the minimum wage getting raised so close to what they were earning before, but many won't. There simply isn't enough revenue to give everyone currently earning around $15/hr a $5/hr raise.
So to give burger flippers and cashiers a 'living wage', you're screwing over many more people (in more demanding jobs) by dragging them closer to the poverty line. Why should I train for and put myself through the stress of being an EMT when I can just clock in at Walmart and earn the same income? It reduces the incentive for anyone to take these types of jobs.
Utopian morons believe everyone will either just get more salary or won't care that their labor has been artificially cheapened by the government, because we want the lowest skilled, educated and motivated to have the same life as the people who try hard. The grasshoppers should have as comfy a winter as the ants, and the ants should be happy that their fiddling brethren are safe and cozy with far less input effort. Or they believe this money all just comes from millionaire fatcat stereotypes who now will continue all business as usual, comfortable if not happy with a lower profit margin. Apparently, once a minimum wage gets enacted, people no longer care about profit.
Our opinion differs as I don't subscribe to philosophy "I made it - screw everybody else". If we are to progress as a society we have to realize that the labor market has changed, disappearance of well paid manufacturing jobs caused an enormous shift down in pay so we can no longer pretend that minimum (and close to) wages are just for kids, retards and losers. We can't afford to subsidize low wages with public assistance and can't afford to condemn a whole chunk of the working class to poverty.
Then do it with your own money. Nobody stops you from handing out cash to whoever needs it. All you liberals can pool the money together and give to those who need money without having to force anybody to do things they don't want to do.
Then do it with your own money. Nobody stops you from handing out cash to whoever needs it. All you liberals can pool the money together and give to those who need money without having to force anybody to do things they don't want to do.
But then they would have to do it themselves. They exist solely to force others to do what they "think" everyone else "should" be doing. It isn't any fun being a tyrant if you don't initiate force upon others.
But then they would have to do it themselves. They exist solely to force others to do what they "think" everyone else "should" be doing. It isn't any fun being a tyrant if you don't initiate force upon others.
Not only what others should be doing but they should also give up their hard-earned money for those who choose to sit on their behind and buy stuff they can't afford. Oh, those people who are forced to give up their money need to be happy as now they have a chance to contribute to this society.
some people here think they work hard at a fast food place.. yes you do work hard, the fact you're on your feet cooking, is physically demanding.
but, other jobs are physically demanding also - I think one of THE most demanding are Air traffic controllers, and Emergency Room health professionals. Also, an office job CAN BE very demanding because you sit a lot during the day in a cubicle, and have to think and create, which also can make someone very tired too at the end of the day, rather than have a job like a postal carrier who walks all day, which also is demanding walking up and down steps.
some people have a very stressful job because they are responsible for a lot including people's lives. fireman, doctors, soldiers, and they deserve more money than a person working Macdonalds, but I don't know if they are screaming for a raise. THEY deserve to make big money.
some people just happen to kind of get lucky and they have earned a lot like the president of Google, or Facebook, who has created a successful business but again too, he had the smarts to create something that many people use.
Maybe you who work at MacDonalds can create something that is marketable and you too can be rich.
If the min jumps to $15/hr., does nobody see anything wrong with a fast food cashier earning the same as an EMT?
I dont. NFL players make more than neurosurgeons and Noble Prize in Medicine winners. That is way more absurd and nobody is complaining.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vejadu
Yes, a few people will get raises to compensate for the minimum wage getting raised so close to what they were earning before, but many won't. There simply isn't enough revenue to give everyone currently earning around $15/hr a $5/hr raise.
So to give burger flippers and cashiers a 'living wage', you're screwing over many more people (in more demanding jobs) by dragging them closer to the poverty line.
Why such an insane idea that by giving minimum wage workers a raise to $15 anybody who has been making $15 is being screwed over? What dont people focus on what THEY make instead of what other are making?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vejadu
Why should I train for and put myself through the stress of being an EMT when I can just clock in at Walmart and earn the same income? It reduces the incentive for anyone to take these types of jobs.
Some people are OK with bagging groceries and some would rather save lives. Do you think that money is the only incentive? If that was the case we wouldn't have any teachers...
And when someone demands a "minimum lot size" or "maximum density" is that not also extortion?
People need to see the difference between "minimum wage" and "living wage". You have to know the difference in making your choices for the future in the type of job that will give you the living wage and beyond.
but if you keep working at a job that pays minimum wage, then you are being unwise, because you are trying to make the minimum wage job become a living wage job - and the twain shall never meet because they are TWO DIFFERENT entities.
if you want a living wage, get out of the minimum wage job.. that's it in a nutshell. but don't force people like you said, to mix the two up.
Sorry that peoples choices have forced them into minimum wage, but that's how life happens sometimes, even with best of intentions. however, don't shoot yourself in the foot and keep yourself from opportunities that COULD give you a living wage and now you have to settle for minimum wage.. but then don't force me and other employers to pay you a living wage if you have made lousy choices.
EVERYONE has choices. don't fool yourself by thinking there aren't. Anyone with enough ambition, drive, time, etc... can make it happen. but then if your out acting a fool, you will get the consequences, and so don't cry when your choices effed you up. (not you specifically, but people in general).
some people here think they work hard at a fast food place.. yes you do work hard, the fact you're on your feet cooking, is physically demanding.
but, other jobs are physically demanding also - I think one of THE most demanding are Air traffic controllers, and Emergency Room health professionals. Also, an office job CAN BE very demanding because you sit a lot during the day in a cubicle, and have to think and create, which also can make someone very tired too at the end of the day, rather than have a job like a postal carrier who walks all day, which also is demanding walking up and down steps.
some people have a very stressful job because they are responsible for a lot including people's lives. fireman, doctors, soldiers, and they deserve more money than a person working Macdonalds, but I don't know if they are screaming for a raise. THEY deserve to make big money.
some people just happen to kind of get lucky and they have earned a lot like the president of Google, or Facebook, who has created a successful business but again too, he had the smarts to create something that many people use.
Maybe you who work at MacDonalds can create something that is marketable and you too can be rich.
The other factor that most folks whining about "working hard" don't mention is experience and learned skills.
They never take into consideration the years and years of education, on-the-job training and experience these high paying jobs entail. Until a burger-slinger spends years learning his craft, there really is no comparison, no matter how hard they think they work.
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