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If you support liberal values (equality for women, LGBT rights, minority rights, freedom of religion), then you wouldn't want to be cozy with Iran. They execute gay people, oppress women (and yes, I know Iran is better for women than Arab countries, but that's not saying much), and treat ethnic and religious minorities like second-class citizens. You can't claim to be a liberal and love Iran, or any Islamic country, for that matter, because it goes against liberal values. Leftists love to critique Republicans for being hypocritical---often times, they are right--but they fail to recognize their own hypocrisy.
Negotiating with a nation to avoid war is hardly tantamount to "loving Iran"
So the only option to this awful deal is war? That's like Bush's saying that the only option to war with Iraq was letting Saddam have WMDs. Simplistic. If Obama truly believes that, he shouldn't be in office. There's ALWAYS other options. Look how many viruses we and Israel have put on Iran's program to stop them. Look at all the assassinations of nuclear scientists in Iran that Israel has carried out. And the sanctions were working. Don't kid yourself, Obama isn't doing this to prevent war, he's doing it because of his ego and his concerns about his legacy.
If you support liberal values (equality for women, LGBT rights, minority rights, freedom of religion), then you wouldn't want to be cozy with Iran. They execute gay people, oppress women (and yes, I know Iran is better for women than Arab countries, but that's not saying much), and treat ethnic and religious minorities like second-class citizens. You can't claim to be a liberal and love Iran, or any Islamic country, for that matter, because it goes against liberal values.
Leftists love to critique Republicans for being hypocritical---often times, they are right--but they fail to recognize their own hypocrisy.
If you want to look around at where civil rights are seriously threatened and/or non-existent, you can find this among allies of the United States as well. The argument can even be made that we have assisted many countries by sustaining their backward ways through military and financial support that also exasperates our efforts to argue otherwise with those who are not our allies. Been to Saudi Arabia lately? Lots of people around the world consider America no "shining example" given our "black lives matter" issues and all sordid history in this country around race, much that remains a problem. No need or time to get into all that...
But to judge who we should engage from a diplomatic standpoint by measuring civil rights progress as compared to us is really hard to accept. Especially when talking about a country that still knows all too well the Shah of Iran story and the two wars we supported Iraq to wage against Iran, who in their right mind would expect that Iran not hold us in contempt???
The reality is that we have GOT to accept the problem(s) for what they are and make the most of what ever we can to engage Iran, work with her, rather than alienate her, or we will surely be headed for more trouble that neither country wants or needs.
This is the better judgment that Obama brings that U.S. foreign policy has lacked for decades and why Obama is right to pressure Israel toward peace with the Palestinians as well (as many past administrations have tried at great risk to invoke the ire of AIPAC). Reengage with Cuba.
PS: The "you can't be liberal and love Iran" comment simply defies all reason or logic. Really scary to read some of these "arguments" sometimes...
I never said that our allies are perfect. And I'm against us being allied with the Saudis. Pay attention to my posts. As for Palestinians, they're savage with how they treat women, minorities, and gays. They're not innocent angels. Israel is the far better option.
I never said that our allies are perfect. And I'm against us being allied with the Saudis. Pay attention to my posts. As for Palestinians, they're savage with how they treat women, minorities, and gays. They're not innocent angels. Israel is the far better option.
You nor I wrote anything about our allies being perfect. Please be careful to stay on track...
Also please do me a favor if I am truly wrong, but you make an argument about choosing sides based on which is better or worse in terms of respecting civil rights, when clearly that is NOT how foreign policy works, or please take another good look at our foreign policy even if only as recent as post WWII. You need to rethink your perspective if you are going to understand what is going on today as well -- with Iran, with Israel, with all that is the Middle East let alone the rest of the world.
Your comment about the Palestinians is the worst example of what seems all you do not know, even offensive on more than one level. I'm not even sure I have the patience to address it, but surely you know the long history of UN resolutions against Israel. Surely you are not also one of these people that cannot understand why there have been so many, far too many, supported by so many other countries, less only Israel and we her big brother. Israel the the "far better option" you say? Over peace you think? By what intelligent measure?
Where are all the allies that should be lined up behind this "better option?"
There are only a few ways I have found that people can think this way, be so misguided, none really excusable IMHO, though quite common in America:
1) No real knowledge or understanding of this history going back to when the notion of Zionism was first introduced to the world leaders at that time.
2) No real want or desire to know this history, these facts, including the far too many anti-Israel UN resolutions and the reasons for them. Also including the general history of the broader Middle East going back at least to when WWII ended, a great deal directly or indirectly related to the emergence of Israel and ongoing illegal settlements.
3) Pro-west ideology that willingly prevents any real critical thinking on behalf of those on the losing end of this history and military involvement.
There are more than a few more equally sad and/or inexcusable explanations, but I've not got the time, all wasted no doubt anyway...
You nor I wrote anything about our allies being perfect. Please be careful to stay on track...
Also please do me a favor if I am truly wrong, but you make an argument about choosing sides based on which is better or worse in terms of respecting civil rights, when clearly that is NOT how foreign policy works, or please take another good look at our foreign policy even if only as recent as post WWII. You need to rethink your perspective if you are going to understand what is going on today as well -- with Iran, with Israel, with all that is the Middle East let alone the rest of the world.
Your comment about the Palestinians is the worst example of what seems all you do not know, even offensive on more than one level. I'm not even sure I have the patience to address it, but surely you know the long history of UN resolutions against Israel. Surely you are not also one of these people that cannot understand why there have been so many, far too many, supported by so many other countries, less only Israel and we her big brother. Israel the the "far better option" you say? Over peace you think? By what intelligent measure?
Where are all the allies that should be lined up behind this "better option?"
There are only a few ways I have found that people can think this way, be so misguided, none really excusable IMHO, though quite common in America:
1) No real knowledge or understanding of this history going back to when the notion of Zionism was first introduced to the world leaders at that time.
2) No real want or desire to know this history, these facts, including the far too many anti-Israel UN resolutions and the reasons for them. Also including the general history of the broader Middle East going back at least to when WWII ended, a great deal directly or indirectly related to the emergence of Israel and ongoing illegal settlements.
3) Pro-west ideology that willingly prevents any real critical thinking on behalf of those on the losing end of this history and military involvement.
There are more than a few more equally sad and/or inexcusable explanations, but I've not got the time, all wasted no doubt anyway...
one question....
why wont you admit...there NEVER was a country lnown as palestine...there is no such thing as palestinians...they are JORDANIAN refugees occupying the country of Israel
Negotiating with a nation to avoid war is hardly tantamount to "loving Iran"
Wake up!
Obama gave iran 150 billion dollars to do what they have been doing....sponsoring terrorism across the middle east using conventional warfare!!!!!! People are dying and not from nukes!
why wont you admit...there NEVER was a country lnown as palestine...there is no such thing as palestinians...they are JORDANIAN refugees occupying the country of Israel
Why insist upon such a thing in light of what has been happening ever since the notion of Zionism was introduced, why in light of what is happening today? You don't have to go back to far in time to find no country on the map known as Israel...
We need a far better understanding of this history and these people if we are ever going to see the peace the whole world desperately needs, let alone the Palestinians. The problem today. Read Jimmy Carter's book about this, please, even better the history of this region post WWII, then talk to me...
"U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon will make a surprise visit to Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories on Tuesday, in a high-profile gambit to bring an end to a monthlong wave of violence."
Why insist upon such a thing in light of what has been happening ever since the notion of Zionism was introduced, why in light of what is happening today? You don't have to go back to far in time to find no country on the map known as Israel...
We need a far better understanding of this history and these people if we are ever going to see the peace the whole world desperately needs, let alone the Palestinians. The problem today. Read Jimmy Carter's book about this, please, even better the history of this region post WWII, then talk to me...
"U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon will make a surprise visit to Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories on Tuesday, in a high-profile gambit to bring an end to a monthlong wave of violence."
"You don't have to go back too far in time to find no country on the map known as Israel." Really? Where do you think Jerusalem was located 2000 years ago? Yes, we all need a better understanding of history.
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Wow, how bad can it get?
