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Old 09-19-2014, 03:27 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,208,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
I tend to agree. The same thing is true for Alaska. Even though it is bigger than any nation in Europe, by far, and we have more than enough resources to sustain an economy for our small population, it still does not compare to the benefits gained by being part of the Union. Scotland is better off being part of the UK.

However, that is not always the case. I fully supported the Warsaw Pact nations splitting off from the former USSR and declaring their independence. So it depends on the circumstances.

There are certainly some benefits to being part of a union. I mean, there would have been a lot of benefits if America had stayed part of the British empire.

In regards to Alaska. Whether or not you think it is beneficial to be part of the union is really a value judgement that depends on the individual. A lot of people in Alaska have family in other states, or who have employment from other states or through the federal government. In those cases, it would seem to make sense to stay in the union. On the other hand, someone with no family elsewhere or someone who might benefit economically from independence will tend to think differently.

I think Alaska would be happier in the long run if it were independent. But if Alaska was suddenly to become independent, a large chunk of its population would get up and leave. If they didn't get up and leave, sections of Alaska would try breaking away from the rest of Alaska.

For reference, New York City stayed loyal to Britain in the Revolutionary War. At the end of the war, tens of thousands of loyalists left the country(at a time when the population was much smaller).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalis...can_Revolution)


It is my opinion that the benefits of union tend to be vastly overstated, and the benefits of independence tend to be grossly understated. This seems "self-evident" by the fact that countries who have gained independence never seem interested in rejoining their old country.

I mean, who in America regrets becoming independent from Britain? The same goes for those Warsaw countries and their break from the Soviet Union. Independence is just wonderful. Is it not?
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Old 09-19-2014, 04:27 AM
 
3,749 posts, read 4,966,930 times
Reputation: 3672
Default Scotland rejects independence

What do you think? Good idea, bad idea? The results didn't surprise me, but kind of disappointed me. I think Scotland has a strong socialist consciousness and would have been a good counter-weight against English Thatcherism, but I guess the Scottish people have spoken.

It was quite close though - 55% nay, 45% aye. I don't think the debate is truly over.
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Old 09-19-2014, 04:32 AM
 
3,728 posts, read 4,870,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valsteele View Post
What do you think? Good idea, bad idea? The results didn't surprise me, but kind of disappointed me. I think Scotland has a strong socialist consciousness and would have been a good counter-weight against English Thatcherism, but I guess the Scottish people have spoken.

It was quite close though - 55% nay, 45% aye. I don't think the debate is truly over.
I disappointed too. We could have watched a fiscal collapse of Scotland as it tried to become Venezuela North and heard the cries of Lefties trying to blame capitalism.

It could have kept me entertained for years.
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Old 09-19-2014, 04:35 AM
 
26,497 posts, read 15,074,947 times
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I think Scotland made the right choice.

Additionally, it could have sparked off a dozen different secessionist movements across Europe in Spain, France, Italy, Belgium, etc... which would have been destabilizing.
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Old 09-19-2014, 04:38 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,382 posts, read 60,575,206 times
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55 to 45 really isn't that close. I was surprised, I thought the land of (some) of my ancestors was going to make a monumental mistake.
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Old 09-19-2014, 04:39 AM
 
3,749 posts, read 4,966,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
55 to 45 really isn't that close. I was surprised, I thought the land of (some) of my ancestors was going to make a monumental mistake.
Yeah it was more of a divide than I thought, I thought it might turn out being like 48% in favor of independence 52% no. Though the way people were talking just a year ago they made it sound like a free Scotland was a pipe dream.
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Old 09-19-2014, 04:40 AM
 
3,749 posts, read 4,966,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni View Post
I disappointed too. We could have watched a fiscal collapse of Scotland as it tried to become Venezuela North and heard the cries of Lefties trying to blame capitalism.

It could have kept me entertained for years.
Yes because Scotland and Northern England have benefited so greatly from Thatcher's "reforms", right?
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Old 09-19-2014, 04:45 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,855,263 times
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Seems that a lot of Scots, heavily youth, are trying to get away from the nonsensical Conservative elitist leadership.
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Old 09-19-2014, 04:49 AM
 
Location: Texas
37,949 posts, read 17,865,154 times
Reputation: 10371
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Seems that a lot of Scots, heavily youth, are trying to get away from the nonsensical Conservative elitist leadership.
What conservative leadership? Oh thats right you don't know what conservative means yet you still comment.
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Old 09-19-2014, 05:53 AM
 
9,879 posts, read 8,018,970 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Seems that a lot of Scots, heavily youth, are trying to get away from the nonsensical Conservative elitist leadership.
It was the pensions that swayed the vote. Something obviously the youth aren't thinking about.
That was the first thing I wondered about and I don't even live there. Apparently it
weighed heavily on a lot of voters minds, "What's going to happen to my pension?" Didn't want
to take that chance, so voted No.
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