Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Maybe I'm preaching to the choir here.....I'm assuming a majority of posters on CD are college educated?
If that assumption is true, then we all know that the global workplace is competitive, and in order to create value and 'deserve' higher pay, you have to provide something to your employer that the next guy can't. The higher the skills, the higher the pay.
Flipping burgers, stocking shelves, etc is low skill, low value, and thus low pay. A monkey could be trained to do that and for less money. While these functions are 'essential', they don't provide value. Too many people can do it the exact same way.
My point being, if you have kids, regardless of age, you should be talking to them about continuing their education, striving to do more than the minimum requirements, about developing skills that will be valued when they enter the workforce.
Ok, soap box is collapsing.
Do you know what the reality of the "Human condition" actually is? There are millions of people out there who's mental and intellectual abilities are such that they will NEVER rise above a very basic vocation. Should the fact that they were born with a low IQ condemn them to a life of poverty and disrespect? You equate these people to the level of monkeys. How noble of you!!!!!!!!
I think the biggest reason the crime rate and the incarceration rate in Canada is a small fraction of what it is in the USA is that because of our progressive social policies, even a minimum wage worker can live a decent life, raise a family and have half way decent housing.
A good example of how the country aids minimum wage families is the "child tax credit"
How much do federal child benefits pay?
The Canada Child Tax Benefit pays a maximum amount of $3,271 per year (for July 2007
through June 2008) for the first child, $3,041 for a second child and $3,046 for a third and each
additional child. Maximum benefits go to families with net incomes under $20,883, and payments
decline gradually as incomes increase above that level.
A family making less than $21,000 with three kids will receive a monthly "Child tax credit" cheque that adds up to $9300 per year. They will also recieve a sales tax rebate of aprox. $1500 per year for the whole family
In Ontario the family would also get around $1000 per year "Trillium" benefit that is basically an energy cost rebate.
Your "smart" minimum wage family will also apply for either social housing or co-op housing where the rents are minimal or geared to income.
With these types of social programmes even the lowest paid workers can have some dignity, raise a family without grinding poverty and fill working position that one way or another are needed by the society at large.
Do you know what the reality of the "Human condition" actually is? There are millions of people out there who's mental and intellectual abilities are such that they will NEVER rise above a very basic vocation. Should the fact that they were born with a low IQ condemn them to a life of poverty and disrespect? You equate these people to the level of monkeys. How noble of you!!!!!!!!
I think the biggest reason the crime rate and the incarceration rate in Canada is a small fraction of what it is in the USA is that because of our progressive social policies, even a minimum wage worker can live a decent life, raise a family and have half way decent housing.
A good example of how the country aids minimum wage families is the "child tax credit"
How much do federal child benefits pay?
The Canada Child Tax Benefit pays a maximum amount of $3,271 per year (for July 2007
through June 2008) for the first child, $3,041 for a second child and $3,046 for a third and each
additional child. Maximum benefits go to families with net incomes under $20,883, and payments
decline gradually as incomes increase above that level.
A family making less than $21,000 with three kids will receive a monthly "Child tax credit" cheque that adds up to $9300 per year. They will also recieve a sales tax rebate of aprox. $1500 per year for the whole family
In Ontario the family would also get around $1000 per year "Trillium" benefit that is basically an energy cost rebate.
Your "smart" minimum wage family will also apply for either social housing or co-op housing where the rents are minimal or geared to income.
With these types of social programmes even the lowest paid workers can have some dignity, raise a family without grinding poverty and fill working position that one way or another are needed by the society at large.
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need
Maybe I'm preaching to the choir here.....I'm assuming a majority of posters on CD are college educated?
If that assumption is true, then we all know that the global workplace is competitive, and in order to create value and 'deserve' higher pay, you have to provide something to your employer that the next guy can't. The higher the skills, the higher the pay.
Flipping burgers, stocking shelves, etc is low skill, low value, and thus low pay. A monkey could be trained to do that and for less money. While these functions are 'essential', they don't provide value. Too many people can do it the exact same way.
My point being, if you have kids, regardless of age, you should be talking to them about continuing their education, striving to do more than the minimum requirements, about developing skills that will be valued when they enter the workforce.
Ok, soap box is collapsing.
Just keep in mind that college does not always translate to skills and there are many skills that require no college.
IMHO, it's better to have a degree than not, but they are not required to achieve success.
I have never work at minim wage, my starting pay 31 years ago was three dollars higher than minimum wage. I think they ought to do away with minimum wage, let the market controll the wages
I would have made more money.....I was a very good worker.
There are millions of people out there who's mental and intellectual abilities are such that they will NEVER rise above a very basic vocation.
And there are plenty of basic vocations that can earn you a comfortable living.
Have you ever had your house painted, a fence built, a deck installed, a concrete driveway poured, landscaping done, sheet rock hung, etc. etc. etc.?
All of those are basic vocations that pay good money. If you have the desire to learn them and then take the initiative to work for yourself, you can have a nice lifestyle.
NOBODY is paying minimum wage to have their house painted. NOBODY is paying minimum wage to have landscaping done.
I just had my house painted earlier this year. I bought the paint (because I wanted to guarantee I was getting the paint I wanted) and paid the crew $3800 for the work. There were 4 guys and it took them 2 full days of about 10 hours. Let's say their supplies cost them $800, leaving $3000 profit. That means I was paying $37.50 per man hour. Obviously, the "boss" probably made a ton of cash and the other guys were really making $15 to $20 per hour, but the point is still valid.
Sure, there will be some people who truly don't have the ability to do even that type of work, and I'm ok with paying for social programs to assist them.
And there are plenty of basic vocations that can earn you a comfortable living.
Have you ever had your house painted, a fence built, a deck installed, a concrete driveway poured, landscaping done, sheet rock hung, etc. etc. etc.?
All of those are basic vocations that pay good money. If you have the desire to learn them and then take the initiative to work for yourself, you can have a nice lifestyle.
NOBODY is paying minimum wage to have their house painted. NOBODY is paying minimum wage to have landscaping done.
I just had my house painted earlier this year. I bought the paint (because I wanted to guarantee I was getting the paint I wanted) and paid the crew $3800 for the work. There were 4 guys and it took them 2 full days of about 10 hours. Let's say their supplies cost them $800, leaving $3000 profit. That means I was paying $37.50 per man hour. Obviously, the "boss" probably made a ton of cash and the other guys were really making $15 to $20 per hour, but the point is still valid.
Sure, there will be some people who truly don't have the ability to do even that type of work, and I'm ok with paying for social programs to assist them.
We pay $18 per hour to start shoving mud behind the well rig and helping set pipe.
I am in my mid-forties......I can still do it.
Many do not make it a full day........they just do not want to work.
None of this would be an issue if the economy didn't suck so badly and we didn't have so many underemployed, low wage workers. Now that they appear to be large enough to exploit as a voting block, Washington is going to do everything they can to hopefully motivate them to vote in a way that benefits certain politicians. Since this is an emotional issue, politicians are going to promise the world and end up doing nothing.
The best defense against having your citizens stuck in minimum wage jobs is an economy where upward mobility can occur for blue collar workers with relative ease. That is something that has been notably absent in this country the past 6 or 7 year outside of areas with an oil boom.
We need manufacturing and construction to roar back into life. We don't need to touch minimum wage, we need more opportunity.
Life was relatively swell for 80% of the population in the 50's. The US found itself in the position of supplying the world with what they needed to rebuild after the war. Private sector union membership peaked. Things began to change in the 60's. Steel was amongst the first to be challenged by emerging economies. Why would anyone import steel from the US when the same product could be acquired from elsewhere for less?
Most traditional manufacturing jobs did not/ do not require more skills than the " burger flipper". Yet, at one point in time, manufacturing jobs commanded higher compensation because of collective bargaining. That lasted for a blip in time. No reason for anyone to import made in the USA when the same products could be acquired from emerging economies for substantially less. No reason for US people to buy made in the USA when they can buy made elsewhere for substantially less.
Tens of millions of jobs have been and will continue to be permanently eliminated by technology.
A PHD US educated and component engineer is competing with someone in India who is just as educated and competent who is delighted to work for a fraction of his US counterpart. His local economy allows him to enjoy a similar lifestyle to his US counterpart.
Blaming this evolution on government, political party or any president is as foolish as expecting government, a political party or president to magically counter this 50 year trend.
And there are plenty of basic vocations that can earn you a comfortable living.
Have you ever had your house painted, a fence built, a deck installed, a concrete driveway poured, landscaping done, sheet rock hung, etc. etc. etc.?
All of those are basic vocations that pay good money. If you have the desire to learn them and then take the initiative to work for yourself, you can have a nice lifestyle.
NOBODY is paying minimum wage to have their house painted. NOBODY is paying minimum wage to have landscaping done.
I just had my house painted earlier this year. I bought the paint (because I wanted to guarantee I was getting the paint I wanted) and paid the crew $3800 for the work. There were 4 guys and it took them 2 full days of about 10 hours. Let's say their supplies cost them $800, leaving $3000 profit. That means I was paying $37.50 per man hour. Obviously, the "boss" probably made a ton of cash and the other guys were really making $15 to $20 per hour, but the point is still valid.
Sure, there will be some people who truly don't have the ability to do even that type of work, and I'm ok with paying for social programs to assist them.
Small businesses typically recruit and hire undocumented workers for ^ jobs. And not all of them are Hispanic. Eastern Europeans come in on tourist visas, work, return home, rinse and repeat. The small business employer pays undocumented workers less. Those who employ documented workers have to compete with those who hire undocumented workers. And around we go.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
