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Ahhh someone wants healthcare! NO! Giving people healthcare is not defensible, civilized, or workable!
Uhmmm....actually universal healthcare is extremely defensible, the vast majority of civilized countries do it, and have done it long enough that its self evidently workable.
You statement to the contrary has a problem. Reality demonstratively disagrees.
No, it does not.
But then, you're a liberal, so, reality has not been observed by you.
If taxation is always theft, it is a violation of rights even if the money is spent on something you should be willing to pay for--and which protects your rights in some other way.
I agree. I don't support any government services...just pointing out the Libertarian party's view of things. I'm libertarian in the broadest sense (anarchist).
There is such a wide range of "libertarians" these days. Capital L libertarians are the ones you describe, but as an agonist you'd technically fall under libertarian, just the very broad definition. I'd probably call myself agorist as well, but I usually say libertarian, Anarcho-capitalist, voluntaryist...I guess all that matters is what your principles are
There is a wide range because some pick and choose some aspects of the philosophy to accept and others to throw away so that it satisfies their personal interest.
The capital L libertarians are becoming more and more statist just so that they can try to work within the system. However the system, the State as it is, is completely immoral and almost completely an entity of initiations of force against the individual. The State as it is, could not be further from libertarian principles if you were trying to design is exact opposite.
Agorism is a very specific group who adhere to similar beliefs and foundations of libertarian philosophy. However, agorists have no intention of trying to "fix" this completely immoral government. Agorists main objective is to collapse the State peacefully by practicing counter-economics.
Either way, Agorists and libertarians (real ones not the Libertarian Party) share the same basic moral foundation which everything is measured against.
No person, group, or government can initiate force upon any person, group, or government. All initiations of force are immoral. The only moral form of force is retaliatory.
Anything that does not adhere to the above boundary cannot be accepted or condoned by any real libertarian or agorist.
So the "tax" would be the same as it is now...2.4%. What this means is that some pay far more than others for the same service...that is immoral.
That is why I am not a Libertarian but an Agorist. The L party will never be able to do anything without selling their soul to get in the game with the two collectivist tyrant parties.
No. It would probably have to be 5%.
BTW, who is running for Pres from the Agorist Party. I'm just asking, because I can call myself'
pretty much what I want to, but I still have to vote for someone in the general election.
So, for me, its going to be someone with an L next to their name
Actually, any belief that government can do this IS ideology. A very radical ideology. There is no evidence, anywhere on earth that government is an appropriate body to provide services or manage economic behavior - and there is a universe of evidence that says it is completely incompetent at all of these things.
So, it's not pragmatic to think government should provide needs, it's radical ideology. Pragmatism looks at what works and what does not work, and government doing this does not work, AT ALL.
The reasons are pragmatic. Single payer healthcare in my county is the best option overall. Attempts at reform haven't shown to increase level of care, while bringing down cost. There is no argument here that only government can provide healthcare, only that government can provide it to everyone, at the cheapest cost.
Radical is a relative term. My country does not have a tradition of strong opposition to the role of government in public affairs, so the use of the term radical would apply to privatizing healthcare
The reason that single payer has persisted here, is that voters don't tolerate politicians attempts at radical change.
There is a wide range because some pick and choose some aspects of the philosophy to accept and others to throw away so that it satisfies their personal interest.
The capital L libertarians are becoming more and more statist just so that they can try to work within the system. However the system, the State as it is, is completely immoral and almost completely an entity of initiations of force against the individual. The State as it is, could not be further from libertarian principles if you were trying to design is exact opposite.
Agorism is a very specific group who adhere to similar beliefs and foundations of libertarian philosophy. However, agorists have no intention of trying to "fix" this completely immoral government. Agorists main objective is to collapse the State peacefully by practicing counter-economics.
Either way, Agorists and libertarians (real ones not the Libertarian Party) share the same basic moral foundation which everything is measured against.
No person, group, or government can initiate force upon any person, group, or government. All initiations of force are immoral. The only moral form of force is retaliatory.
Anything that does not adhere to the above boundary cannot be accepted or condoned by any real libertarian or agorist.
Which will be done via a single payer system, and not an NHS. The main reason is as follows: pragmatism and well, crap, we already have one in this country anyway, Medicare.
Is the current system a disaster? Yes. Will a single payer system be a disaster? Probably not, but it won't be a "good" system. Probably very average.
I came to this conclusion upon thinking about how much of a burden providing health insurance must be for businesses. Even pre-ACA, it's like a $5,000/year tab for a healthy employee. Also, I think compassion has entered the equation as well. And finally, people being bankrupt from medical bills essentially takes that person out of the economy for life.
I just don't see why we can't have it in this country.
THAT said, I have a message to the left: In this country, a public health care system WILL NOT work without having a ROBUST and THRIVING private health insurance and health care system with which millions of Americans with the means can be taken off the dole and not even use the public system. This will be vital. We do not have resources for 330 million unhealthy people to be on a public system.
So the left needs to do the following:
You need to completely and totally repeal the affordable care act in its entirety.
You need to roll back private health insurance regulation to the level of auto insurance.
We need to provide ample incentives for companies to provide private health insurance for their people as a benefit. If the bottom line just doesn't work, particularly for minimum wage workers at restaurants, then they just use Medicare.
The ultimate goal here is to prevent people from going into financial ruin due to circumstances they did not choose. We can also reduce the burden on businesses.
While I'm usually wary of government involvement, but simply put, I've concluded that healthcare exists outside of free market forces. It's one of those things that everyone will need at some point
Am I becoming a Democrat? Absolutely not. But I have a long road ahead of me to convince the right-wing in this country.
The problem is like Medicare, it is not sustainable. It is a complete unfunded liability.
BTW, who is running for Pres from the Agorist Party. I'm just asking, because I can call myself'
pretty much what I want to, but I still have to vote for someone in the general election.
So, for me, its going to be someone with an L next to their name
Agorists do not participate or give any validity to the State by playing their silly games. Agorists do not vote because it matters not who is in the evil entity of initiations of force, the State. It is as foolish as choosing who'd you'd rather have as your attacker. You will be attacked either way, so there really is no difference.
There is a wide range because some pick and choose some aspects of the philosophy to accept and others to throw away so that it satisfies their personal interest.
Either way, Agorists and libertarians (real ones not the Libertarian Party) share the same basic moral foundation which everything is measured against.
No person, group, or government can initiate force upon any person, group, or government. All initiations of force are immoral. The only moral form of force is retaliatory.
Anything that does not adhere to the above boundary cannot be accepted or condoned by any real libertarian or agorist.
Real ones have to vote for someone too. Can't just spout free markets and live in the
back woods like a Ted Kaczynski (without the bombs or murder).
BTW, I don't even think Madison, Jefferson, and others would be "libertarian" enough
for some on CD
The reasons are pragmatic. Single payer healthcare in my county is the best option overall. Attempts at reform haven't shown to increase level of care, while bringing down cost. There is no argument here that only government can provide healthcare, only that government can provide it to everyone, at the cheapest cost.
Like I said, there is no evidence, whatsoever, anywhere in the universe, that your assertion is true, and all the evidence we have says it's false. So, why do you keep arguing it?
Quote:
Radical is a relative term. My country does not have a tradition of strong opposition to the role of government in public affairs, so the use of the term radical would apply to privatizing healthcare
No, "radical" is saying that your wants justify asking government into intrude into other people's lives to steal what you want for you.
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