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Old 09-19-2014, 08:35 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,741,394 times
Reputation: 1336

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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
It is sustainable. We just need to snippy snip the defense budget and foreign aid.
I'm all for snippy snipping the defense budget down to almost nothing and ending all foreign aid!

But it might be better for the whole of the country if we used that money to make a dent in the 18 trillion dollars of debt we are in. If we did that, maybe our magic green toilet paper would have a little more purchasing power...
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,802 posts, read 8,896,698 times
Reputation: 4512
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
This is so freaking frustrating.

The initiation of force is where the immorality begins.

The perceived "degree" of force or the "importance" of the issue do not bend this tenet.

Libertarianism (not the capital L/Ron Paul statists) is an all-or-nothing proposition. You either believe in force or not.
No one would be forcing you to use the Medicare. No one would force you to purchase insurance anymore either.
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:56 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,741,394 times
Reputation: 1336
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
No one would be forcing you to use the Medicare. No one would force you to purchase insurance anymore either.
Wouldn't you be taxed for it even if you didn't use it? That is extortion which is an initiation of force.
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Old 09-19-2014, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,667,670 times
Reputation: 7608
Why is it such a big debate in the US then? Taxpayer per capita spending on health in NZ, is about the same as the US, with the difference that it covers the whole population., and not just a percentage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk View Post
Like I said, there is no evidence, whatsoever, anywhere in the universe, that your assertion is true, and all the evidence we have says it's false. So, why do you keep arguing it?



No, "radical" is saying that your wants justify asking government into intrude into other people's lives to steal what you want for you.
That's your American perspective. By and large, that sort of thinking doesn't apply here.
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Old 09-19-2014, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,354,214 times
Reputation: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk View Post
Not of those representatives have specific, clearly defined limited duties and powers, and prohibited from doing anything else.




We are not intended to to greatly influence the federal government, since none of its defined powers have any significant influence on our lives. It's when it strayed past its limits that things have gotten way out of hand.



I have no solid idea what you mean by that.

However, the overbearing state brings about its own demise - when Atlas Shrugs.
You might find this interesting...starts around 30 seconds in. Two guys talking about how they used to be minarchist libertarian (as you are) and how they got to be anarchist.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zB6EUnq6yX0
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Old 09-19-2014, 09:37 PM
 
15,528 posts, read 10,496,731 times
Reputation: 15812
My libertarianism is slipping: I am formally on record for supporting universal health care

This falls in line with what I have been saying. A lot of libertarians are actually Democrats, they are just tightwads (or think they are).
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Old 09-19-2014, 09:42 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,741,394 times
Reputation: 1336
Quote:
Originally Posted by elan View Post
My libertarianism is slipping: I am formally on record for supporting universal health care

This falls in line with what I have been saying. A lot of libertarians are actually Democrats, they are just tightwads (or think they are).
LOL...Democrats (and Republicans) condone initiations of force to get their way. Libertarians do not. If you hear a "libertarian" promoting initiations of force, they are definitely not libertarians. They are some collectivist looking for a better label for their version of tyranny.
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,729,686 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
I'm not going to support this until you leave private insurers alone. If people get to have guaranteed health coverage, then why do you need to still pick on private insurers? Private insurance can be provided by employers as a benefit or purchased by individuals if they so desire, and will be crucial to rolling out a single payer system for all since it will relieve the strain of having 300 million+ people on one system.
How am I "picking on" private insurers? I get very annoyed at the people who make analogies of health insurance to car insurance. They're not the same thing! Cars are expendable; our bodies aren't. This has nothing to do with the health insurers. I'd be fine with a system that utilizes private insurance, but I don't want them to be able to sell stripped down policies that actually don't cover anything when you really need it.
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Old 09-19-2014, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,743,685 times
Reputation: 15482
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
I am trending towards a healthcare model that rewards people for taking care of themselves.

Those with a normal BMI, non-smokers and non substance abusers get the lowest rates.

The 75+ % of adults who are overweight and/or smoke and/or are addicted to substances are required to pay substantial premiums or do without.
I'm pretty much with you - except that a person with weight or substance issues *who is enrolled in a program to fix those issues and is hitting the benchmarks* should get lower rates as well.
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Old 09-19-2014, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,802 posts, read 8,896,698 times
Reputation: 4512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
How am I "picking on" private insurers? I get very annoyed at the people who make analogies of health insurance to car insurance. They're not the same thing! Cars are expendable; our bodies aren't. This has nothing to do with the health insurers. I'd be fine with a system that utilizes private insurance, but I don't want them to be able to sell stripped down policies that actually don't cover anything when you really need it.
My question to you is why do you need to regulate a private system when we'll have a public system for all.
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