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But occupational licensing and restrictive immigration are violations of the free market. They are both government mandated collusion on the free market.
Maybe so, but that doesn't address what I said. There is no comparison between mandated higher wages and higher wages due to market conditions.
Whenever the debate comes up on the minimum wage, detractors automatically say that it's risky to raise the minimum wage as it could increase prices and unemployment. What they fail to acknowledge or ignore for that matter is that these adverse effects take place with wage hikes in other industries. Why do you think higher education tuition have ballooned? Why are healthcare costs through the roof? The same adverse effects you see with a minimum wage increase is also visible with wage hikes in other sectors of the economy.
Wages in this country have much more to with Supply and Demand than Skill Based Pay.
Especially, in a ever increasing global market where there are billions of others that can do your job.
That is what happens in a Globalist Utopia with a Corporate Owned Government with no National Protections for the common American. But there are plenty of protections for them abroad at tax payer expense.
I think someone has been looking for black helicopter WAY TOO LONG.
Face facts.......no unraveling the global economy. American have been spoiled and used to living high on the hog.
Might as well get used to a big downstep in living standards and eventually 3rd world status.
The idea of the USA digging down deep...and once again becoming competitive at manufacturing things like TVs and industrial air conditioners......................forget it, the Doltocrats and union thugs would quickly drive any of those "good" jobs to China and beyond.
A prime example is the auto industry.
They big 3 sat on the laurels for years and let the Japan's take over the industy. But, hey, all those union workers still got raises even though sales were going through the basement and the cars were junk.
They automatically say that because it's true.
They fail to acknowledge that because it's nonsense. The minimum wage is government mandated wages in opposition to the free market. The other is not. They are not in any way whatsoever comparable.
Because after decades of the government guaranteeing student loans there is no more market competition in higher education. It's like this. The government is going to buy you a new car. It's your choice whether you want a Toyota or a Mercedes. The government will pay for either one. Which do you choose? Obviously you're going to choose the Mercedes. Now the government offers the same thing to twenty million other people. Do you really think the Mercedes dealers aren't going to raise their prices in response to millions of people wanting their cars?
See above. It is the same situation. The government in the 1930s froze wages. That means companies could not compete for the best employees by offering more pay. So they started offering health insurance instead. Now you're in the same circumstance as the Toyota versus the Mercedes. Where is the incentive to get efficient, low cost medical care when it's the insurance company paying for it and not you?
No, it isn't. You're comparing completely and totally different circumstances. One is the federal government mandating wage increases regardless of market value. The other is the federal government flooding the market with money. Do both result in price increases? Yes. But the mechanism of how and why the prices go up are completely different. You're also wrong in your attempt to level charges of hypocrisy on people, because if you notice the same people who complain about raising the minimum wage are the people who complain about out-of-control deficit spending.
"if you notice the same people who complain about raising the minimum wage" usually have NEVER owned or started a business, much less a successful one, yet they want the rest of us to think they are business geniuses!
Whenever the debate comes up on the minimum wage, detractors automatically say that it's risky to raise the minimum wage as it could increase prices and unemployment. What they fail to acknowledge or ignore for that matter is that these adverse effects take place with wage hikes in other industries. Why do you think higher education tuition have ballooned? Why are healthcare costs through the roof? The same adverse effects you see with a minimum wage increase is also visible with wage hikes in other sectors of the economy.
The government student loan program is directly responsible for the dramatic cost increases in college tuition.
I think the same can be said for healthcare costs. When government becomes the provider, inflation of prices is the natural result.
Face facts.......no unraveling the global economy. American have been spoiled and used to living high on the hog.
Might as well get used to a big downstep in living standards and eventually 3rd world status.
The idea of the USA digging down deep...and once again becoming competitive at manufacturing things like TVs and industrial air conditioners......................forget it, the Doltocrats and union thugs would quickly drive any of those "good" jobs to China and beyond.
The US masses have historically been employed in rule based low skill jobs, no different than the burger flipper.
Life was good for a blip in time after WW2, when there was limited global competition. The unions peaked in the 50's and lifted many of the mass into middle class.
Despite this prosperity, about 20% of the US people lived in dire poverty. They likely did not realize the Great Depression ended.
The US steel and auto manufacturers were first to feel the huge pinch of global competition in the 60's.
Why pay a premium to sustain the US middle class when the same products can be sourced from elsewhere for less?
Real wages, adjusted for inflation, have not changed since 1973. Why should they? There are more people than jobs. Is there a reason why a particular job should be worth more now than in 1973?
The credit card has allowed the US masses to live beyond their means and " feel" better about themselves and sustain the economy. Same for home equity loans. And then there's the entire military/ defense complex sustained by deficit spending.
In the meantime most professional rule based jobs have either been substantially altered or eliminated by technology. We are talking bank tellers, auditors, accountants, printers, nursing, office support and so on.
Fast forward to right now. A competent US PHD level engineer might command $250,000, plus bonus and benefits. Or, a US company can hire an as competent US educated PHD level engineer in India for $50,000.
We are no longer talking about low skill jobs, here.
Things are not all bad. The wealthy Chinese are immigrating to the US in record numbers and do so for clean air and water and the ability to have more than one child and lower taxes. Imagine that.
Last edited by middle-aged mom; 09-22-2014 at 07:04 AM..
I think the same can be said for healthcare costs. When government becomes the provider, inflation of prices is the natural result.
The government provides healthcare?
Or do you mean Medicare and Medicaid?
The Swiss mandate all citizens buy government defined healthcare insurance. Employer subsidized insurance is not available. A Medicare like insurance is not available. Within a few years of the individual mandate, 99% of the risk - adverse Swiss population complied. The Swiss government subsidizes about 40% of the population.
The Swiss government owns and operates most hospitals. The Swiss government negotiates the cost of prescription drugs. The Swiss government maintains MD comprised comparative- effectiveness panels to determine treatment protocols. The intention of embracing a similar concept in the US was deemed " death panels"".
Swiss Hospitals don't compete for business. They don't each spend $ hundreds of millions a year building and promoting their brand. And they don't compensate non medical administrators with 7 figure annual comp and bonus.
On the other side of the world is China that owns and operates their hospitals and mandates healthcare insurance. They focus on chronic disease prevention with an emphasis on preventing obesity. Substance abuse is not a serious concern in China. And of course the one child rule takes care of population control and associated costs.
Conversely, in the US, the land of the free, 2/3 of the US adult population is overweight/ obese. Substance abuse/ addiction is an epidemic. Big pharm lobbies Congress to protect their interests. Getting the new I-phone is a higher priority than healthcare for many people. The masses go wild when their overweight kids are served fruit instead of cake in school. People often seem to resist taking responsibility for the consequences of their behaviors.
Why do liberals have such a difficult time understanding the difference between merit/market based increases and government mandated/unearned increases?
What market based increase says that you've gotta give a CEO that ran a company into the ground a 20 million dollar golden parachute when you have to kick their ass out of the job for incompetency?
Is this why Silicon Valley firms are lobbying for immigration reform? Engineers are expensive and in most cases overpaid relative to their skills. You have programmers in India who are capable of doing the same programming tasks that your six figure Apple or Microsoft software engineer gets paid to do. If borders were to ever open, you'll see an oversupply of engineering skills. The same goes for the medical field. The AMA lobby to limit the number of doctors in order to artificially inflate the salaries of incumbent medical professionals. American professionals have for the longest enjoyed premium pay, but as the developing world gets educated and skilled, they find their pay premium threatened just like how the pay premium of manual labor jobs have waned in the last generation or two due to globalization and outsourcing.
Newsflash: The United States is no longer the shining light on the hill.
Silicon Valley pushes for immigration reform because the American education system sucks at preparing anyone for work in serious tech, while India and China excel at it. In the US, you gain tech geek skills only if you seek them out on your own. Very few schools teach anything worthwhile that isn't obsolete or on its way out of favor by the time the glacial university system prints the textbooks and finds a qualified instructor.
It isn't because of cheap, it's because of qualified. I've reviewed resumes from applicant pools at 5 different companies for all manner of software development type work, and the bottom line is that the ratio of qualified people from India or China vs native born Americans is like 30, maybe 40 to 1. Bigger populations in both countries, but on a 4 to 1 basis that does not explain the vast disparity.
Here's the newsflash - a STEM degree is good to get your foot in a tech door at maybe $15 an hour as a code monkey (how I and all my colleagues all started). You move up in this game because you outwork, out-hustle and out-learn the other guy. Staying current is a big part of that, as is actual work done. In a 4 year STEM program, you might write as much code as I write in a given month. America sucks at educating tech. The sad news for entitled Americans is that we're being outworked.
Most of my colleagues that are naturalized or still in the green card waiting system get paid comparable to me. I go to happy hour with these people. We vacation together. They're my friends. We all know what we all make, sort of, and the Indian and Chinese aren't underpaid, not by a long shot. They are very well paid. Silicon Valley would simply like more of them, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT PRODUCING THE SKILLS FAST ENOUGH HERE, and the folks in Silicon Valley have businesses to run.
You can keep thinking it's all because Indians work for slave wages. It's a lie of course, but if it helps you sleep better while the world runs right past you...then cool, whatever works.
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