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Old 09-23-2014, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,856 posts, read 17,347,969 times
Reputation: 14459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by random_thoughts View Post
Why, does it offend you?
Will your government pass a law or imprison me depending on how I answer?

 
Old 09-23-2014, 09:21 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,256,702 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
What's funny about all this is as anarchists/agorists we are constantly scrutinizing our own decisions. I'm guessing you're like me: always feeling I could be doing more to be consistent with my beliefs. I'm my own worst critic.

I guess when you simply give up your natural rights to a fictional entity (gov) you don't have to think about your own morality.
So if I overpower you can I enslave you? Or will you run to big daddy government to get them to stop me?
 
Old 09-23-2014, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,856 posts, read 17,347,969 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
So if I overpower you can I enslave you? Or will you run to big daddy government to get them to stop me?
Huh???

I'm really worn down by all this. I feel like we aren't getting anywhere.
 
Old 09-23-2014, 09:33 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,256,702 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Huh???

I'm really worn down by all this. I feel like we aren't getting anywhere.
If you were to be consistent with your beliefs you would not run to the government if you were enslaved - you would just deal with it.

Do you walk the walk or just talk the talk? Can I enslave you without you running to the government?
 
Old 09-23-2014, 09:36 PM
 
Location: City of Angels
2,918 posts, read 5,605,190 times
Reputation: 2267
how is running to govt inconsistent? some thug or gang is threatening my life and i have no problem sicking an even bigger gang on him.
 
Old 09-23-2014, 09:38 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,256,702 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by foadi View Post
how is running to govt inconsistent? some thug or gang is threatening my life and i have no problem sicking an even bigger gang on him.
There is no government in anarchy.
 
Old 09-23-2014, 09:40 PM
 
Location: City of Angels
2,918 posts, read 5,605,190 times
Reputation: 2267
then how could no_recess run to the govt in your scenario?
 
Old 09-23-2014, 09:41 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,256,702 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by foadi View Post
then how could no_recess run to the govt in your scenario?
We have a government.
No_Recess believes in anarchy and said he tries to live by his beliefs.
To be consistent, he cannot run to the gov't.
 
Old 09-23-2014, 09:44 PM
 
Location: City of Angels
2,918 posts, read 5,605,190 times
Reputation: 2267
using that logic be would have to avoid using sidewalks, roads, govt currency, etc to be consistent. that's not going to happen.
 
Old 09-23-2014, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,352,427 times
Reputation: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by random_thoughts View Post
I don't have contradicting beliefs. Do you?
Try these:

1. You believe there have to be rules or that someone has to be in charge (society requires the rule of law). This means that there needs to be a final decider or ultimate all-powerful thing to overrule the individual judgment of normal people. You don't think ANY entity making up ANY rules is good, though. You don't want a homicidal tyrant in charge, for example, who would make rules that led to the slaughtering of citizens. So, if there have to be rules and an outside authority governing everyone else, how do you decide what that authority should dictate? Who are you or I to decide that? If the law says to kill all babies, disobeying would be putting your own judgment above that of the "law" or "authority".

What you really want is for government to take your personal judgment and impose it on everyone else. The moment someone else wants their preferences and values forced on you, you'll have an issue with it. That is inconsistent. Do you think it's okay to ever disobey the law? If yes, government can't have any true right to rule. If you don't have an obligation to obey, then it can't be the all-powerful decider of the rules anymore. If government does have the right to rule, you would have to obey it no matter what.

2. You believe in taxation and think it's justified. You believe it's justified because government has the moral right to collect them, otherwise it would simply be theft if you didn't want to pay them and they demanded it anyway. If you don't have the right to take someone else's money, then how can you give that right to someone else to do it? Can a big group of people, none of which have the right to steal, give me the right to steal? What if they have a big fancy ceremony? It doesn't change anything, so believing that taxation is ok, but theft is not is hypocritical.

3. The law tells you to do something against your own moral code (maybe shoot an innocent child, for example)...which of these would you agree with?

(1) "I am morally obligated to disregard and disobey that command, break the law, behave as a "criminal", and accept that my own conscience outranks all the politicians and legislation in the world."

(2) "I am morally obligated to ignore my own values, my own moral code and conscience, and obey the commands of the rulers."

If you picked one, you're an anarchist. If you pick two, you're a slave (and you'd also be saying "I believe that the RIGHT thing to do is the thing that I think is WRONG," or "I judge that I shouldn't rely on my judgment")

Credit to Larken Rose for these.

Last edited by T0103E; 09-23-2014 at 10:06 PM..
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