Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Considering I wasnt around, I rely upon the education of others, and one group I rely upon is the group established to preserve Civil War battlegrounds, as a reference to the reasons behind the Civil War..
They said it was over the right for states to leave the union, your references who say it wasnt about states leaving the union is who again?
Hm. Yeah, Familiar with those sorts of societies. And I'll agree, they do good work - although often the sites themselves just look like open fields, and you pretty much need a guide to say "Here's so and so, here's where this happened."
I mostly rely on historians and people who, in part rely on them. Shelby Foote, James McPherson, and David Blight, as examples. As long as they can properly reference their works, I'm fine with them.
Yes, yes, yes. NOW, let's talk about Conservatives (the old Democratic party) and Liberals (the old Republican party). And yeah, I do agree that the Conservatives have a shameful history of bigotry and racism. And it's one that lives on today. This forum is a great testament to that fact.
We all know that ut used to be the Democratic party that was conservative and wanted to secede from the Union while federalists from the Republican party fought the civil war to keep them in the Union.
Can you believe the most famous Republican, Lincoln, was the big proponent of the big federal government ? LOL
It was a voluntary decision by the majority of the citizens of the United States. I'm not sure why you think the fact that some citizens disagreed and fought against this decision prevents if from being voluntary.
In South America, Central America and Mexico and many of the worst New World slave countries it was the slaves themselves who revolted against their oppressors. We on the other hand fought a bloody civil war amongst ourselves in order to end the practice.
This is very, very true. American conservatives are morally bankrupt, carrying the legacy of chattel slavery, Jim Crow and such.
Liberals literally fight to keep the legacy of slavery alive every day with their cynical politics of ethnic division and racism and their policies designed to keep people dependent and weak.
I have always wished that Texas had NEVER joined the Confederacy, ever. But that history cannot be changed.
Any economy based on slave labor is doomed to failure, and the slave-holding south would probably have crumbled on its own--eventually.
Lincoln was willing to do whatever it took--regardless of the cost in human lives, sheer destruction of property, no regard whatsoever for collateral damage--to return the Confederate states to the union.
Sherman tore a path of appalling, utter destruction through Georgia and portions of the Confederacy.
They got what they wanted. While they did what they had to do, they are not heroes. Neither are Davis, Lee, et al.
We tend to forget, this was, among other things, one of the more stupid wars in history. Based on a mistake that, as you said, was bound to fail eventually (It would certainly take time...but anyone even mentioning the South winning is talking out of their behind), where the North was nearly guaranteed a victory, but the South made the first strike, all over the distrust of a President's promise, and pure fanaticism.
There were, in theory, better, far better alternatives, but nope.
Although, I guess many, if not most, wars are based on sheer idiocy, rather than...Hm. Can't come up with another reason, actually. It should be a last choice - and it's a choice I always hate to take. So I know what you mean.
I do have to disagree about Lincoln, Grant, and Sherman, though. They were dealing with an attack by traitors (no offense to you), that literally enslaved a third of their own population. If we get to 0/3...that's a win for humanity, right?
That's what being a hero is. You do ugly things, but for the greater good - even if you don't deserve it. You ever see the 11PM News clip of some firefighter that saved 3 kids who says "I'm no hero." Nah, at some point, you are. And I think "Destroyed formal slavery based on skin color." qualifies.
I dunno what to say bout guys like Lee. Um...They worked for their States, back when that was more important than...freedom for all?
Quote:
It never should have happened in the first place, but that's also history that cannot be changed.
This is all true. Most slaves weren't whipped & separated from their family's, with their women & daughters raped or that kind of thing. That's a narrative that's pushed for political gain today, not because it's accurate.
Well, as long as it didn't happen to most, that's a very important disticntion to make. And I guess all the quartoons and octaroons came into existence due to completely voluntary associations.
Quote:
The fact that they were treated decently, combined with the familiarity of home & the fact that the North was so violent towards Blacks meant staying put was the best option for the majority.
You sure have an interesting definition of "decently".
Liberals literally fight to keep the legacy of slavery alive every day with their cynical politics of ethnic division and racism and their policies designed to keep people dependent and weak.
It was a voluntary decision by the majority of the citizens of the United States. I'm not sure why you think the fact that some citizens disagreed and fought against this decision prevents if from being voluntary.
It sure as f.ck wasn't voluntary on their part, was it? And the original claim was that the US was "exceptional" in this regard, which of course overlook the countries who did away with slavery by simple legislation.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
