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Old 10-06-2014, 11:42 AM
 
13,962 posts, read 5,628,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
It is not a rewriting of history to say blacks did not fight for the South, it is however a lie to claim they did, and since you make that claim then you have to prove it.
Historical record, as in official Confederate enlistment documents, pay vouchers, etc are non-existent for the theory. The "record" of blacks fighting for the Confederacy are anecdotal, letters from soldiers/officers, and pretty much follow the "shoot the Yankees or I shoot you" model of coerced behavior and subsequent self-preservation. Honestly, if given a choice between a far away political rhetoric and the immediate act of self-preservation, what would you choose? If I am faced with "kill that faceless white guy you don't even know and stay alive, or choose Lincoln's gooey speeches and I kill you right now" as my two choices, then I am shooting Yankees and saying "yassah Boss, I be shootin Yankees, and may G-d bless Dixie!!"

Makes sense from a tactical perspective, same as Hussein marching women and children in front of his army during some battles. Cannon fodder existed as a military concept a few millennia before the US Civil War, so it's not unreasonable that blacks did indeed, absence of official records notwithstanding, fight on the side of the Confederacy.

There's a bunch of unofficial evidence of informal regiments in Kentucky and South Carolina, and even more informal evidence of rear echelon type functions (duties similar to what the slave already performed for their masters) being done by thousands of blacks.
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
It is not a rewriting of history to say blacks did not fight for the South, it is however a lie to claim they did, and since you make that claim then you have to prove it.
Is this based on your extensive research into this ?
Was the story of William Ellison made up then ?
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:44 AM
 
Location: St Paul
7,713 posts, read 4,749,163 times
Reputation: 5007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
It is not free when one has to feed, cloth, house and provide health needs to get that "free" labor. They were finding it was getting more and more expensive and slaves are not free to begin with one has to buy them and good healthy slaves cost a lot of money. Far cheaper using other methods for labor.
That's also why slave owners took good care of their slaves. They made sure they were well fed, well rested & well housed. It doesn't make slavery ok, but it's not in fitting with the all slaves were raped & whipped narrative at all. Common sense rarely trumps emotion.
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:45 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,884,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmen View Post
Who coerced us to end slavery?
A part of our country fought a WAR with another part of our country, and the result of the WAR was the end of slavery. I don't think anyone who lived in the part of the country that kept slaves would say they VOLUNTARILY gave them up.
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:47 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,884,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
That's also why slave owners took good care of their slaves. They made sure they were well fed, well rested & well housed. It doesn't make slavery ok, but it's not in fitting with the all slaves were raped & whipped narrative at all. Common sense rarely trumps emotion.
Some slave owners took good care of their slaves. Other slave owners kept them in terrible conditions. And just the idea that some people are not as human and therefore enslaving them is acceptable is in itself so demeaning that it constitutes poor treatment.
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,941,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Is this based on your extensive research into this ?
Was the story of William Ellison made up then ?
Yes, I have several book shelves full of books on the US civil war and yes, I have read all of them. Any other questions?

Yes, if they cannot provide proof of such, which is something I have not seen. If blacks were truly fighting on the side of the South it would be well documented and the data and paperwork would be there to prove it, where is it hmmmmm?
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,941,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
That's also why slave owners took good care of their slaves. They made sure they were well fed, well rested & well housed. It doesn't make slavery ok, but it's not in fitting with the all slaves were raped & whipped narrative at all. Common sense rarely trumps emotion.
Wow, you actually believe that was the norm for slaves? You really need to read more actual History books and less revisionist history opinions put out by people that do not want the ugly truth to be the reality.
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,941,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmen View Post
OK, and that part of the country was part and parcel of the United States, correct?

In other words, we ended slavery voluntarily, not under the coercion of any foreign influence.
The South considered the North a Foreign Government, hence they referred to themselves as the Confederacy and a independent nation, so much for that argument
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:55 AM
 
Location: St Paul
7,713 posts, read 4,749,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by random_thoughts View Post
First of all prisons today provide way better conditions than slave owners, second free labor or labor for food and shelter is still cheaper than hired hands.
Prisons today provide better conditions than the slave OWNERS lived in, much less the slaves themselves. Electricity, heat, AC, easy access to food, recreation, etc.

Your point about slavery vs sharecroppers is not necessarily true. A sharecropper would have to buy everything from the land owner or company store on credit & by the time they'd paid everything off, they more often than not owed the landowner money each season. In this scenario the land owner gets all the benefits of slavery, with the share cropper now legally obligated to stay put since he owed the land owner money, yet the land owner no longer had purchase a slave, nor did they have any obligation to take care of the sharecropper.
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,941,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmen View Post
Who coerced us to end slavery?
The Union/Federal government, at the time the South did not recognize that government as theirs
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