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Open slavery is still practiced openly in some spots. Like sex slavery for example.
And in the first world countries it's merely subsidized by the government in the form of food stamps/cards now, section 8 housing, medicaid and other welfare. Even slaves got food clothing and shelter so the owner had to pay for those things for their slaves.
I submit that when a person works full time at a job and can't afford to take care of themselves that it's simply obfuscated slavery.
And I submit you don't know what slavery is. Slavery has nothing to do with whether you can take care of yourself or not. Slavery and poverty are not synonyms.
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On ABC Nightline this week they had a special about new first class cabins with beds, 5 course 5 star meals, big screen TV's etc... for CEO's, upper executives and other 1%'s. Point is a lot of these people oversee companies whose employees receive thousands of dollars of help from government. It's really not a much different situation of feudal serfdom where the serfs worked the land in exchange for food and shelter and protection from the lord who lived in opulence.
Yes, it is different. Serfs did not have a choice. Serfs could not change jobs. Serfs could not get a student loan to go learn a trade skill or get a college degree. Serfs could not sell their house and move to another city. Serfs did not vote on who their lord would be.
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Same as it ever was just disguised and obfuscated today. I'm not even saying its wrong as a moral judgment my point is that the elite has far surpassed their forefathers because as our forefathers could perceive and see clearly that they were being taken advantage of modern man believes he's free now even though all but about 20-30% are in the same position.
If your freedom requires that you be given food and shelter by the labor of others then all you've done is become the master and they have become the slaves.
The minute you require someone else to support your needs, you make a slave out of them. Even if they are richer than you are. You are still confiscating the results of their labor without their consent. That is slavery.
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The other ingenious thing the elite have done in modern times is letting the slaves compete for the upper positions under them. In other words it used to be that the educated, doctors, statesman etc... used to come from those who were already wealthy. But today TPTB let all the slaves have access to education and opportunities for higher positions letting about 30% have a pretty good lifestyle. In that way they get the 30% or so who escaped on their side and blaming the folks who couldn't make it out for not "working hard enough" even though even if every one worked hard the situation would remain unchanged because only 30%, or what ever percentage an acceptable lifestyle ends, can be in the 30%. You can't get all of the people in the top 50% it's impossible so they take care of those who reach the level of house slaves and ingeniously let them subsidize the field slaves about whom they endlessly gripe about to the owners.
You're wrong here because you're dealing in relative terms. This is typical liberal misrepresentation. They incite class envy by pointing out all the things the rich have that the poor don't. What they don't do is point out all the things the poor have that they didn't used to have. It is logically fallacious thinking. Just because slaves were on the bottom of society 200 years ago and you are on the bottom of society today does not make you a slave. Slavery isn't relative. You're either in forced labor with no personal freedom or you're not. Simply being poor relative to another person does not make you a slave.
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Priceless.
No, just flawed reasoning on your part. All you're doing is bog standard populist demagoguing.
Thanks for responding to my questions. I get what you're saying, the 'Lost Cause' arguments are mainly those based on emotional attachments, do you agree?
Lincoln didn't end slavery because he felt bad for Blacks, rather he thought it was bad for poor Whites. He also didn't believe he had the authority to dictate to the South whether or not they could have slaves. What he believed more than anything was that he had to keep the Union together, so he did so reluctantly, but he did so none-the-less.
You are simply ignoring my post. And repeating nonsense.
Look, history has to be looked at in context, Lincoln was anti slavery, the party he was elected to represent was founded to be anti slavery.
The southern states saw his election as a blow against slavery, and so they seceded from the union and started the war.
And Lincoln evolved during the war on ending slavery.
So again saying that the civil war wasn't about slavery by focusing on one Lincoln quote is not understanding history but ignoring the southern states reasons for secession, the anti slavery founding of the Republican Party and Lincoln's anti slavery stance, as well as Lincoln changing his mind on ending slavery.
This is semantics. The war was about establishing that states could not secede if they wished. The "United States" was formed voluntarily. No state would have entered into it had they known they couldn't get out of it when it stopped working for them. At the time of the civil war, there was debate as to whether or not states could simply secede if they wished? Some believed they could, some believed they couldn't. Slavery was the issue that made push come to shove. That said, most Southerners weren't slave owners & weren't fighting for slavery, so much as they were fighting for their Southern pride & their state's rights to independence from the Federal Government.
The revisionist history is by the Uncle Toms who never bothered to think more profoundly than what they were taught in their High School history book. They revere a man that thought they should never be allowed to be in that High School history class because they were sub-humans.
No this is a lie. Again we can go to the source material from the state's who left the union, those statements of secession were all about slavery. Please stop lying about this.
This is an absurd standard, the idea that you know why most southern soldiers were fighting in the civil war or that such a thing even matters and can be separated from the statements of secession from those states is a standard we don't apply to any other military conflict.
Did all the Germans fighting in WW2 agree with Hitler? Does it matter?
Did all the Japanese fighting for the emperor agree? Does it matter?
What about the Romans fighting for Julios Ceaser were all those soldiers doing it for the exact reasons a Julious Ceaser? Does it matter?
This is the level of fiction that lost causers are willing to go.
They ignore the official statements of secession from those states going to war which all focused on slavery, to claim some phony knowledge about the real reason why the soldiers were fighting.
Again, you're half right, which seems to be your M.O. The amount of Blacks fighting for the South was negligible. You had some free Blacks fighting for the South, but not many. You had some Black slaves used in support roles, but not many. You had groups like the all-Black Louisiana Militia fighting for the Confederacy who weren't technically Confederate soldiers, but those guys switched allegiances (logically) to the Union after the battle of New Orleans.
Where you're either ignorant or dishonest is that the entire country, not just the South thought Blacks were fundamentally inferior & unfit to fight a war. Lincoln didn't trust Blacks to join the Union army. He thought of them as mischievousness children & feared the weapons he supplied them would end up in Confederate hands. He also feared he'd push border states into joining the Confederacy if he enlisted Black soldiers. That's why Black soldiers weren't a significant part of the Union army until late in the war. Once it became clear the war would drag on for years though, Lincoln softened because he needed more bodies & the influx of Black soldiers for the Union arguable was the difference that won the war. Blacks should be proud of their contribution to the Civil War, but at the same time we should try to keep historical accuracy in mind & that dictates that we acknowledge the North & President Lincoln thought of Blacks as inferiors as well. It was not unique in any way to the South. It's just how things were at that time.
Again another wasted post, there were zero confederate soldiers. This has been repeatedly debunked. The south was fighting to keep black people in bondage, their whole idea was that black people were inferior, they flat out refused to have black confederate soldiers.
In terms of you post about the north. The north wasn't fighting to keep black people as slaves, That teeny tiny difference kinda of changes everything.
Slave owners appeared to be doing well. But, like most farmers, they were up to their eyeballs in debt. That's why slaves were used as collateral for loans. Loans from Northern bankers. The South had an agrarian economy. They were land rich, but capital poor. The North's economy was land poor, but capital rich. Each year when they sold their crops, they paid back their loans, and spent their profits. When it came time to plant, they borrowed the money to do so. Poor land management practices were already leading to lower crop yields.
This whole post is another lost cause lie. Wow the wealthiest states were all southern slave states.
The enslaved were the single largest source of wealth in the whole nation and by a wide wide margin. Cotton wad the number one export of the U.S.
No this is a lie. Again we can go to the source material from the state's who left the union, those statements of secession were all about slavery. Please stop lying about this.
This is an absurd standard, the idea that you know why most southern soldiers were fighting in the civil war or that such a thing even matters and can be separated from the statements of secession from those states is a standard we don't apply to any other military conflict.
Did all the Germans fighting in WW2 agree with Hitler? Does it matter?
Did all the Japanese fighting for the emperor agree? Does it matter?
What about the Romans fighting for Julios Ceaser were all those soldiers doing it for the exact reasons a Julious Ceaser? Does it matter?
This is the level of fiction that lost causers are willing to go.
They ignore the official statements of secession from those states going to war which all focused on slavery, to claim some phony knowledge about the real reason why the soldiers were fighting.
Apparently some folks think these are the things that make these precariously United States of America exceptional.
Apparently some folks think these are the things that make these precariously United States of America exceptional.
Some school board members prefer fiction, when they get directly involved in the curriculum it never turns out well. The banning of Huckleberry Finn and Catcher in the Rye come to mind, certainly school boards have better things to do.
Why are still about this? This issue has been beat to death. Bottom line the Civil war is done. We had the Civil rights Movement with the Republicans supporting LBJ.
The Problems we really have is economic in nature. If we had a good strong manufacturing base and keep our industry home. Revenue does wonders to fix problems.
We have successful black professions who earned their way up thru the school of hard knocks.
We continue to move toward equality for all. Colorado School board had the best intentions but the delivery was not well received. Would not be the first and the last when we are speaking of Public Education.
Lets not split hairs.
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Lets Move On!
