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Old 10-04-2014, 10:43 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,741,829 times
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In thinking about ways to free mankind from slavery to the world Central Banking Families I am unsure of how to first get this freedom and secure it once we do. And the rambling went something like this in another thread. I am curious if anyone else would find the concept having any merit.

"I still don't see a solution to the Money Cartel. Even if we could magically get the Chosen Families release us from our fictional debt and they did not finance a(nother) nation(s) to finish us off, what do you think would work?

We "could" go back to Constitutional currency, with Congress regulating gold and silver coin. However, we would have to have some sort of confiscation of said materials from the people as our government does not have any holding anymore. The Fed "bought", or rather took, our reserves as "payment" for our debt to them long ago. So we would have to do like Roosevelt and confiscated the people's valuables in order to make the Constitutional currency. (Of course we would be offered basically nothing for it because the Government has nothing to offer its people in exchange.)

And then we'd run into the same problem as we were in before. The same situation when the Chosen Families were artificially expanding/contracting the value of currency at will by moving their vast holdings around the globe like a shell game. That is why going back to the gold standard is not going to solve the problem. The Red Shields can make the value of gold soar or crash depending on what they do with their personal holdings. I believe by the time our nation was founded they already held about 80% of the world's gold supply.

Of course we can use any commodity of value that is scarce to base a sound currency on. However, figuring out what that scarce material is that can not be easily manipulated or amassed is another story. I leave that to someone smarter than I.
However, if we could find such a commodity, that would definitely be the way to go.

I still say that if we evolved as a species that we could use labor or time units as currency. Labor would be tough to quantify and that would be harder to implement. Time however may hold more promise. Everyone's time in life is limited and thus scarce. No one can ever be immortal in that no one can amass or create time to extend their life.

The best quality of time other than its scarceness, is that it truly represents the "cost" and "investment" that one puts into their endeavors. The "problems" with using time units are that there are a LOT of people who earn a LOT of money while investing little or no time or labor at all to amass their wealth. The "financiers" of the world for example are little more than peddlers of nothing if you really think about. (That is why usury was always an abomination morally) An exchange among people on "credit" can be done just as easily without a shylock as an intermediary third-party parasite.

In essence if people needed something on "credit" they would have to sign a contract or give an "IOU" for the necessary hours that was needed to create the thing that they wanted on "credit". This poses a serious "assault" to those who "earn" more than they "invest".

I understand that this is revolutionary and there would need to be a very long process to be implemented. I believe in the end that this might be the only "fair" currency possible. Furthermore, it would completely revolutionize labor and the entire market and how society views "jobs", "wealth", and "exchange".

No longer could an elite few consolidate wealth. No person could "invest" more time than they had to live. Therefore, no person could receive more than they "invest". There would be no "rich" people who would never have to work because they would have to "invest" as much time working as they wished to be at leisure. There would be no "poor", except in the case of those who invested none of their time, because they would at birth be as potentially as "rich" as every other human being. The "richest" that one could possibly become is if they worked every minute of their life and bought less time from others than they had worked. There simply would be no "rich" people at all. And anyone who was alive would have access to their time to invest as any other person alive does.

There are many more, more than I can outline, benefits for humanity. One instead of chasing exchange tokens with their life and being tempted to do things which are worth more "money", they would be more free to invest their time in ventures which they enjoyed, were efficient at, were more aligned with their personal talents, etc. There is no longer an incentive to "profit" or gain more than you have invested in a time currency. You can not earn more than you invest. And investment is limited by the time you spend on this earth. Instead of doing things to "profit", read: earn more than you invest, people will do things which benefit those around them. This is a major shift in human interaction. Again, people will do things which benefit those around them rather than doing things to take advantage of those around them.

Now before someone gets the idea that this is some form of collectivism, or forced "equality", no one will receive time when they invest no time (rich and poor are gone, everyone has and can have the time that they have in this life). If some decides to lay down in the forest, no one is going to "pay" that person. This is a world without money. This is a world without a "profit" motive. This is a world without usury or wealth consolidation. Everyone gets from others only that which they invest in others. Also no one has to invest in another that does not reciprocate.

Let the blasting of this concept of "currency" commence It is just an idea...no need to get upset....

Live and let live."

Again, I am very curious if the above makes any sense to my fellow man. I am also interested if anyone has an even more equitable medium of exchange that could eliminate the ills of the token money system so prevalent in the modern world.
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Maryland
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Would the time of a genius be worth the same as an imbecile?
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:16 AM
 
11,086 posts, read 8,543,209 times
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Time IS money. And the value of it can be inflated, just as the value of money can.

Won't work.

The problem you are trying to solve has nothing to do with a currency in and of itself, it's the ways a currency can be manipulated to the benefit of the powerful.

Changing a currency, or a system that gives value to the currency, was attempted under Bolshevism and it led to one of the worst systems that has ever been created on earth.

There is no absolute way to fix this problem, other than periodically resetting the system by killing off the ruling elite en masse and starting at square 1. That's not usually a very pleasant process, so people avoid it until they're desperate with rage.
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:26 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,741,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiftymh View Post
Would the time of a genius be worth the same as an imbecile?
No the genius would be more efficient. So the market would seek him out instead of the imbecile.

We could imagine that the genius would be able to produce something in less time than an imbecile. So people in a free market would choose the most "bang for their time" and choose to exchange with the more efficient genius.

No one would choose to exchange 20 hours with a person who offers to mow their lawn with a pair of scissors. They would choose to exchange with the person who could cut it in an hour with a mower.

I believe that people will seek efficiency in their exchanges just as they now seek the cheapest price.

However, I do not believe that the life of any person is "worth" more than the life of any other just because they can take advantage of others.
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:29 AM
 
12,270 posts, read 11,328,716 times
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So I go into Starbucks and order a double espresso, what's that going to cost me?
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:30 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,741,829 times
Reputation: 1336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goinback2011 View Post
Time IS money. And the value of it can be inflated, just as the value of money can.

Won't work.

The problem you are trying to solve has nothing to do with a currency in and of itself, it's the ways a currency can be manipulated to the benefit of the powerful.

Changing a currency, or a system that gives value to the currency, was attempted under Bolshevism and it led to one of the worst systems that has ever been created on earth.

There is no absolute way to fix this problem, other than periodically resetting the system by killing off the ruling elite en masse and starting at square 1. That's not usually a very pleasant process, so people avoid it until they're desperate with rage.
The "value" of time in a time currency system would only depend upon efficiency not manipulation or profit.

Everyone's life is finite, you can not "save" time to add years to your life. You cannot amass a million lifetimes. The only thing you could manipulate is the ratio of how much time that you have on this earth you use investing and how much time you do not.
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:40 AM
 
3,042 posts, read 5,001,053 times
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I think this idea is genius. 100 IOU's for one person's time. 50 for another. We could even trade these IOU's for other people's time. Maybe we can mark the 'time' on pieces of paper and exchange them. We could standardize the units, maybe even have some regulations around their creation and distribution. We could start a whole government agency to manage it.
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
6,476 posts, read 7,322,951 times
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Time is money, but only a fool would try depositing it in a bank.
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:51 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,741,829 times
Reputation: 1336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockside View Post
So I go into Starbucks and order a double espresso, what's that going to cost me?
I would imagine their would be an investment of time that built upon throughout all of the production stages and assigned to the product just as a "monetary" investment of overhead and wages builds up in products now. Do I know what that time investment is for a cup of espresso, no I don't. That would be dictated by the efficiency of how the product is brought into being.
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Old 10-04-2014, 12:00 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,741,829 times
Reputation: 1336
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnytang24 View Post
I think this idea is genius. 100 IOU's for one person's time. 50 for another. We could even trade these IOU's for other people's time. Maybe we can mark the 'time' on pieces of paper and exchange them. We could standardize the units, maybe even have some regulations around their creation and distribution. We could start a whole government agency to manage it.
Obviously you are being sarcastic. As this is obviously the inherent problem with the current system.

However, the units are already standardized by time investment and no one has to define time, it is not arbitrary. No one could accumulate more than they invest, or charge "interest" as time remains constant, and no person's time is worth more than another except when one is more efficient than another. But this efficiency is not chased after because it is profitable, but rather only because it is sought after by the consumer. There is no motive to "profit" as everyone's life is finite. People would attempt to be efficient to be marketable not profitable. You can only trade time, you cannot create it nor destroy it. Everyone is born with the same amount and is required to invest as much as their time as that which they wish to consume. Their is no usury, profit, or manipulation. Just exchanges of time invested for time consumed.
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