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View Poll Results: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?
yes 101 74.81%
no 34 25.19%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-02-2008, 08:29 PM
 
Location: I live in Ronan, MT but am stationed in Virginia Beach
290 posts, read 688,631 times
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I think that they should abolish welfare, and let organizations like churches and volenteers take care of the needy, and I think unless you work in a hazardous work enviroment drug testing is wrong
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:10 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,388,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielRead View Post
I think that they should abolish welfare, and let organizations like churches and volenteers take care of the needy...
Well, we had that once upon a time. The results were horrendous....private charity after private charity wailing in helplessness as their meager budgets were simply overwhelmed by the scope of the problems. That's where the safety net came from...as a response to the utter ineffectiveness of private charity in dealing with the problems of a modern and civil society...
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Old 01-03-2008, 02:50 AM
 
309 posts, read 362,774 times
Reputation: 111
Too many ill-informed folks posting on an issue they likely know little about here and let their own perceptions of the stereotypical welfare recipient get the better of 'em.

Drug testing in and of itself is now nothing more than an industry. One that is also subsidized by taxpayer dollars, insurance companies and employers (Corporate America) as a method of control and unconstitutional in EVERY facet of American law......but it continues, it expands, it thrives because it IS part of the "War on Drugs."

Far too many people who ARE required to take drug tests.....whether pre-employment or otherwise......ARE EASILY able to beat any drug test with a wide range of available methods or just "clean up" for a little while.
This IS a FACT!

I agree that there are and always will be people who abuse any and all assistance they may get from the government and ARE truly worthless and a perpetual drain on our society, but I also know there are MANY who have fallen on "hard times," been laid off, become disabled, ill or are taking care of some other family member who may be incapacitated in some way that may have severely put them in financial distress resulting in their need to seek government aid (welfare, food, housing, etc.). Welfare laws have been dramatically reformed since the Clinton-era and the assistance available to people is VERY minimal.......to say the least.
In WA........a family of 4 is qualified to receive a total of $640/month in cash along with a total of $375/month in FOOD........often which has to be supplemented by some from the $640 CASH amount. All the while......the heads of the household MUST be actively searching for Full time work.....Full time 35 + hrs/week and failure to do so or non-compliance will result in those benefits to be either cut in half or removed completely.........which they will anyway......once that family of 4 has someone working a $9.00/hr job full time!
Such a HUGE amount of assistance for this family?!
How many here can live soooo comfortable with your family.........on an income of $640/month cash and $375/month for food for all 4 of ya?
Rent, gas, insurance, electricity, phone, water, clothing, TV? ALL......for under $640/month?..............a GHETTO neighborhood or under a bridge, camping in the woods, sleeping in a car..........your choice......OR, unfortunately.........many feel pressured to make more money in the most ILLEGAL or IMMORAL way to supplement that amount and try to live OUT of a ghetto that may be full of gangs, shootings, assaults, etc.

To those who have posted previously who have "noticed" a welfare recipient or food card holder who was driving a NEW vehicle or using a nice, expensive cell phone.......here's the deal......YEAH, that person probably IS unemployed, qualifies for welfare assistance, etc. BUT........that nice car wasn't paid for by YOUR tax dollars.........but likely, because THAT person SELLS DRUGS or does PORN online or ?, prostitution or often "gets lucky" at a casino or with a scratch lottery ticket!
Don't take it personally...........but a LOT of people just CANNOT GET JOBS for a huge number of reasons:

(1). Crappy economy.......LOT of competition for ANY and all jobs....including the minimum wage ones.
(2). Their PAST haunts them.......Whether its a criminal record, lack of stable employment history, mental/physical/health-related, past injury/surgery.......AND throw in the fact that now there are MANY employers who REFUSE to hire you if your CREDIT SCORE doesn't meet their expectations of a trustworthy employee who pays his/her bills on time....all the time, has perfect credit with no bankruptcies or ?
(3). Clannish Corporate America.........Yes, discrimination of ALL kinds is alive and well in America....OR.....oops, Affirmative Action hiring quotas hindered your chance for employment......even though the one the company hired is beyond STUPID!
(4). Outsourcing of sooooo MANY manufacturing jobs overseas.
(5). Corporate Downsizing......including the fact that many employers NOW seek Part Time employees they don't need to pay ANY benefits to......or ONLY hire through Temp. Agencies for the same reason and can pay lower wages too in doing so.
(6). Competition for ANY job with probably 20 MILLION people here ILLEGALLY.......who are ALSO getting government benefits and making babies who are then, immediately born LEGAL American citizens from their ILLEGAL mommys and daddys.....and all the businesses who provide them with work and give them the reasons to immigrate here illegally.......cause we're still a bit better than the country they came from..........for a little while.

Sorry.......but this country and its policies MAKE more problems than it ever could or wish to fix and could do a LOT better at the way it treats its OWN, legal citizens!

Corporate America......ARE the REAL winners and fueled by the same GREED as any government politician to keep the stockholders happy, make bigger profits......all the while SHAFTING more and more people in society EVERYDAY and directly/indirectly CONTRIBUTING to an ever-widening gap in classes in this country.

Sorry......but it's THIS crap that only fuels more resentment, hopelessness and despair among more and more people.........inevitibly fueling further societal ills and poverty.


Either DRUG TEST EVERYONE IN AMERICA.......equally and fairly....including ALL politicians, cops and lawmakers, judges, schoolkids AND welfare recipients.......OR scrap it!
It only serves to divide this nation further, fuel far more anger and resentment and likely....increase crime as well.....again, at the expense of EVERYONE.....since more crime is what THEY WANT to convince the masses that there must NEVER, EVER be an END to the construction of more jails and prisons! 500,000 incarcerated (1980)....... 2.6 MILLION (2007).....in America.
Let's just go for 50 MILLION locked up in America within 25 more years.......including ALL who fail a drug test!
Eventually.......your either a prisoner.....OR you are working to KEEP all these people locked up or monitored in some way.
Great nation it'll be??!!

Sad fact is.......whether you are for or against drug testing......IF you REMOVE or FIRE or don't HIRE........ALL in our society who would show a positive drug test RIGHT NOW..............the American workforce would cease to exist.....overnight and there would likely then be about 30 MILLION + MORE UNEMPLOYED. Business and trade in this country WOULD STOP cold and THAT is the reality many here either don't believe or want to know!

Last edited by Skytripper; 01-03-2008 at 03:08 AM..
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:44 AM
 
7,381 posts, read 7,669,157 times
Reputation: 1266
Governmental drug testing for individuals who are working and leading normal lives, without cause, should be unconstitutional. As a matter of fact, the government intervening into personal lives and making drug use illegal should be unconstitutional. However, if I am paying to raise the chiildren of drug users or for the necessities of the drug users themselves, I should have the right to demand responsible behavior, i.e. no drug use, nutritional food, and no clubbing.
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Old 01-03-2008, 05:46 AM
 
1,266 posts, read 2,502,150 times
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We need BIG welfare reform. Let the churches help many of the needy and the government only help those that really need it. The others can pick the fruit rottening on the vine, see immigration forum.........
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Old 01-03-2008, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Warren, Pennsylvania
79 posts, read 314,900 times
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you don't know how many time's i've discussed this.

alright. i'm speaking as someone who know's several people on welfare who regulary smoke marijuana. even though the live's of the people i'm close to would become harder, i still am in favor of welfare recipients getting tested for drugs. sadly, sometimes most of the money doesn't go towards what it should.
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:40 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 1,707,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Well, we had that once upon a time. The results were horrendous....private charity after private charity wailing in helplessness as their meager budgets were simply overwhelmed by the scope of the problems. That's where the safety net came from...as a response to the utter ineffectiveness of private charity in dealing with the problems of a modern and civil society...
The less money we take from people in the form of taxation, the more willing they are to donate to charities. People don't mind helping out the other guy...we just don't like being forced to at gunpoint.
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Old 01-03-2008, 05:37 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,388,661 times
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You seem to be just set against taxes, period. As if they were innately evil. Do you feel that way about any of the other bills you pay? Phone, electric, cable? Rent or mortgage? Auto or homeowners insurance? Those are all private goods. They are divisible and measurable at one particular point or other along the way. So they all get paid for in roughly the same way. There are other goods that are not divisible or measurable at a discrete point. Those are public goods. We pay for those through taxes because there is no other effcient way to charge people for them. There are also some goods that private markets might be capable of producing, but they don't do so in an efficient or effective manner, meaning that consumers either receive lower quality services or pay higher prices for them than they otherwise might. Sometimes we provide those things publicly as well and simply put the tab on top of the tax bill. It's all for the best really. Taxes are no different than the cash you hand over at the end of the grocery store check-out line. They are just your share of the cost for public goods and services that are provided to you. Why would you be so upset over a simple thing like picking up your share of the tab at the end of the day? Seems like just the personally responsible thing to do from where I sit...
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Old 01-04-2008, 07:59 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,474,276 times
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Taxes is just about having the government confiscate your income -- basically taking your labor from you, making you work for nothing.

An electric bill is different because I get something for it. I get electricity. Mortgage means I'm closer to owning my house. Of course those are not like taxes at all.

Taxes are a pure loss --- rob from the working to redistribute to those who did not work for that money. It's basically slavery -- others living from the free labor of others.
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Old 01-04-2008, 09:28 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,388,661 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Taxes is just about having the government confiscate your income -- basically taking your labor from you, making you work for nothing. An electric bill is different because I get something for it. I get electricity. Mortgage means I'm closer to owning my house. Of course those are not like taxes at all. Taxes are a pure loss --- rob from the working to redistribute to those who did not work for that money. It's basically slavery -- others living from the free labor of others.
You are one very confused ideologue. The very fact that you HAVE a ten-dollar bill in your pocket results from someone else's labor, to say nothing at all of the fact that when you go to the store, the clerk will actually accept that ten-dollar bill in exchange for real goods. For you to see taxes as pure loss is a sign that you yourself wish to live off the free labor of others...that you merely wish to be a slave owner, able to live off the benefits of other people's efforts without paying anything for them at all. What an admirable attitude that is...
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