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View Poll Results: Should welfare recipients be drug tested?
yes 101 74.81%
no 34 25.19%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-01-2008, 08:08 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,521,481 times
Reputation: 22472

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Corporate welfare...you mean allowing certain compaines to keep some of their own money that they have earned? As opposed to people who sit on their butts and just get fatter spending my hard earned money?

Yeah, it's exactly the same thing.
It is amazing when people equate a tax break (less income being confiscated by the government) as welfare.

People have come to believe that all money, all income from labor belong to the government. If they government lets you keep any part of what you worked for, then it's some kind of government handout? Unreal.

Welfare amounts to the confiscation of someone's wages that he/she earned to give to someone who did not earn it, did not work for it. That's labor theft -- slavery.
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:11 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,406,452 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Yeah, it's exactly the same thing.
Yes, it is exactly the same thing. Follow the bouncing ball. Every dollar's worth of corporate freebies that Bush et al have handed out represents one more dollar's worth of taxes or debt that YOU have to pay. It's all coming straight out of YOUR pocket...
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:17 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,406,452 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Welfare amounts to the confiscation of someone's wages that he/she earned to give to someone who did not earn it, did not work for it. That's labor theft -- slavery.
To support the argument, you need to define yourself as being purely selfish, and to claim that the loftiest social interest is inferior to the least of your own. Admirable...
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Old 01-01-2008, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,408 posts, read 7,779,474 times
Reputation: 1198
It is funny how so many "regular Joes" defend corporate tax breaks. They think these corporate breaks somehow help America. The same corporations that are making their money by laying off American employees and sending all the work to China, Mexico and India.

Hey, it's all part of the free market...so what if only the executives and shareholders are the ones making money, while pension plans are dropped and health benefits slashed for the regular workers in America that still manage to hold jobs.

Yeah, give them those special tax breaks so they don't have to contribute to the War on Terror like the rest of us suckers will, (or at least the children and grandchildren of us suckers.)
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Old 01-01-2008, 09:44 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,521,481 times
Reputation: 22472
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
To support the argument, you need to define yourself as being purely selfish, and to claim that the loftiest social interest is inferior to the least of your own. Admirable...
The government confiscating my income to give to those who did not work for it is not "unselfishness" nor is it "generousity".

You are confusing freely given charity with something quite different. Do I own my own labor or do I not? Is my mind and body the possession of the government? If you do not own your own labor then you are a slave, if you are forced to work for others' benefit then you are a slave.
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Old 01-01-2008, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Penobscot Bay, the best place in Maine!
1,895 posts, read 5,886,615 times
Reputation: 2703
Also funny that people who like to ignore the actual facts repeatedly spout the "fact" that anyone receiving welfare (usually in referrence to TANF/AFDC) does not work, or pay taxes, and is living off other people's money. Truth is, the MAJORITY of welfare recipients DO work, work full-time, and DO pay taxes out of every check just like everyone else.
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Old 01-01-2008, 10:08 AM
 
2,434 posts, read 6,665,402 times
Reputation: 1065
To what purpose would we drug test welfare recipients? Nothing will happen if they fail the drug test. The government can take welfare type monies away from the mother but not the children.
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Old 01-01-2008, 11:03 AM
 
1,080 posts, read 1,708,287 times
Reputation: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Yes, it is exactly the same thing. Follow the bouncing ball. Every dollar's worth of corporate freebies that Bush et al have handed out represents one more dollar's worth of taxes or debt that YOU have to pay. It's all coming straight out of YOUR pocket...
Wow, where do I begin? Do I start with equating deadbeats to productive, job providing companies? Or do I start with the fallacy that taxing corporations does anything other than hurt the consumer? MOD CUT

Ok, just a couple of things before my braincells go on strike.

First, it is insanity to suggest that stealing money from my paycheck and giving it to a welfare queen is the same as allowing a company to keep their own money. In no way is that logical or rational.

Second, when corporate taxes are raised, all it does is force the company to raise their prices to cover the higher tax burden. Corporations do not pay taxes...individuals do.

Third, when you punish something, it tends to lessen that behavior. Taxation is punishment for success. If I grow my company and become profitable, I am punished by having to pay taxes. So if punishment tends to reduce the frequency of a behavior, what does effect does taxation have on growth and profit? On the other hand, tax cuts are like a reward...so what effect would tax cuts have in those same areas?

Fourth, when you punish corporations, who is really getting hurt? Why, the very people the left claims to want to help. First, prices have to be raised to cover the higher tax burden. Second, when growth and profit are stifled, companies create fewer jobs. So now you have a middle class with fewer jobs facing higher consumer prices. Sounds like a recipe for success if you ask any liberal, I guess.

MOD CUT

Last edited by NewToCA; 01-01-2008 at 11:11 AM.. Reason: personal attack, and discuss the topic not the poster and their participation in other threads
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Old 01-01-2008, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Where there is too much snow!
7,685 posts, read 13,108,959 times
Reputation: 4376
Cool Good Point

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
The government confiscating my income to give to those who did not work for it is not "unselfishness" nor is it "generousity".

You are confusing freely given charity with something quite different. Do I own my own labor or do I not? Is my mind and body the possession of the government? If you do not own your own labor then you are a slave, if you are forced to work for others' benefit then you are a slave.
I feel the same way you do. Like I said before, they need to shut the welfare system down all across the board and re-open the WPA of the 1920's and 30's and put them all to work. IF YOU DON'T WORK, YOU DON"T EAT. Its as simple as that.
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Old 01-01-2008, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Camberville
15,830 posts, read 21,343,774 times
Reputation: 28113
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeabeeBolt View Post
I feel the same way you do. Like I said before, they need to shut the welfare system down all across the board and re-open the WPA of the 1920's and 30's and put them all to work. IF YOU DON'T WORK, YOU DON"T EAT. Its as simple as that.
Funny, everyone I know on welfare works full time jobs. Silly me.

Welfare is NOT EASY to get. Trust me. My father lost his job and due to age and health problems (severe diabetes, heart problems, etc) he has been unable to find another job. He can't find a job in the corporate world that he worked in for 30 years because of age and a lack of college degree, or he's "overqualified" for anything that would give him a 2nd glance. Due to the other health issues, he can't get a job standing like working in a restaurant or retail and there is nothing else in the area for him. Once unemployment ran out 5 years ago, my family has been stuck. Yet despite that it's a family of 4- including 3 people with severe health issues and one minor- on a $16K a year paycheck, my family qualifies for no kind of aid. Even when our medical bills are over $5000 a month and we just got dropped from our insurance (yet don't qualify for government insurance). I'm not saying that we should look for handouts, but after 30 years of giving his life to work and saving meticulously, my family is in debt up to their eyeballs just do to medical care. We're not the only ones we know in very similar situations.
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