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Old 10-29-2014, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Lyon, France, Whidbey Island WA
20,831 posts, read 17,017,677 times
Reputation: 11532

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I am betting on the RN...and the Giants.
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Old 10-29-2014, 07:31 AM
 
17,468 posts, read 12,891,898 times
Reputation: 6763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracer View Post
The ACLU would represent the remaining terrorists housed at gitmo and charge the US with endangering their clients
I have a feeling this is going to happen anyway. Those people have been their way to long for lawsuits not to result.

Wonder what this nurse thinks the rest of us should do, while her and others feel they can self monitor.
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Old 10-29-2014, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,404,194 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
It is a interesting legal question about detention without due process.
the governor does have the right

isolation for medical purposes is not detention

ellis island for example was not only an entry point for emigrants, but also a Quarantine Stations (Plague houses

During the time of different kind of deseases, the people who arrived by ships to the New York harbour were quarantined on special Islands.


"In an act to prevent the bringing in and spreading of infectious distempers in the colony, and stipulated that vessels having small-pox, yellow fever or other contagious diseases aboard should stop on their way to the city at these Island and there be quarantined, under heavy penalties for disobedience".

What happend when a ship arrived?

Any yellow fever or cholera patients on an incoming vessels, a signal is set, and one of the steamers belonging to the New York quarantine service comes and brings the sufferers to the appropriate Island.

Immediately upon reaching the island they are stripped of their clothing, which is at once burned in a furnace constructed for that purpose, and they are placed in the sick wards.

1758 - Bedloe's (Liberty) Island - today "the site of the Statue of Liberty". Ships entering the harbour whose passengers and/or crew were infected with small-pox, cholera, yellow fever or other contagious diseases were held at the island's hospital. In 1796, the quarantine facility was moved to Governor's Island.


1796 - Nutten (Governor's) Island - This quarantine was not for long, due to the emergence of yellow fever on the island in 1799. The State Legislature made arrangements to purchase a larger site at Tompkinsville. The quarantine station began operating on that island the same year, 1799. (see below)



1799 -1858 - Staten Island – Tompkinsville - known as the Marine Hospital Grounds. The night of September 1, 1858 people came to the Island and burned it down. The remaining patients from Tompkinswille were transferred to different places. Those suffering from small-pox were moved to Blackwell's Island, patients with ship-fever were sent to Ward´s Island and the ones with yellow fever were sent to the floating hospital.


1847 - Ward's Island - (Also known as Tenkenas Island (translated to Wild Lands) at the time of its appropriation from its native inhabitants to the Dutch Settlers in 1637). Ship-fever patients were sent to this Island. The most important buildnings here were the Verplanck State Emigrant hospital, capable of holding 350 patients (it was the biggest hospital complex in the world during the 1850´s); the Refuge building for destitute women and children; and the New Barracks building for destitute male aliens.


1854 - Blackwell Island had a small-pox hospital on the Island from 1854. It was design by James Renwick Jr (who also designed Saint Patrick's Cathedral) and built by convict labor. It was the hospital in New York devoted to small-pox cases.

(The Island had several names changes - in 1921 from Blackwell's to Welfare and then in 1972 from Welfare to Roosevelt - as it is called even today).


1850-1890 - Castle Garden (Immigrant landing center). From 1855 to 1890, Castle Garden was America's first official immigration center. About 8.2 million immigrants were entered here. They used Blackwell Island if they had any smallpox patients and Ward´s Island for other deseaces.

1857 - Staten Island - Seguine Point - In early 1857, New York's Governor appointed three Quarantine Commissioners to find a new site. The Commissioners preference was Sandy Hook, but after having been refused the sale of the necessary parcel of land by the New Jersey's Legislature, they selected Seguine Point.
In the process, they had ignored the populated, nearby villages and the fact that its bay was too shallow to be easily accessed by the sea. Sometime just before midnight of May 6, approximately 20 vigilantes invaded Seguine Point and burned the place down. Seguine Point, was never rebuilt and Tompkinsville was continued in use. Instead, it would later be used as a burial ground for some of the immigrants that had succumbed to disease.


1859 - Floating hospital: steamship Falcon. The steamer Falcon, which had transported passengers to the gold rush fields of California, was refitted as a floating hospital. In late June of 1859, most of the remaining patients with yellow fever were transferred here from Tompkinsville.




April 23, 1863 - what is now known as the General Quarantine Act was passed, defining the quarantine establishment, authorizing its construction, creating the permanent office of Quarantine Commissioner, defining the duties and powers of the Commissioners and Health Officer, and establishing a general system of quarantine for the port in New York.

1870 and 1873 - Swinburne Island & Hoffman Island. The best solution for a permanent quarantine was eventually determined to be the creation of artificial islands in the Lower Bay. Using rip-rap with sand fill, work began on the construction of Swinburne Island and Hoffman Island around 1866. Swinbure completed 1870 and Hoffman in 1873. The facilities were closed on both islands by the end of the 1930s.

Jan 1, 1892-1954 - Ellis Island
Those immigrants that were ill with contagious diseases, were removed from the ships by Medical Inspectors and transferred to Hoffman and Swinburne Island. It was only the first and second-class cabin passengers. Passengers in the third-class had to wait for their examination later at Ellis Island. Ellis Island also had quarantine houses at the Island.



entire history here.... Ellis Island - Genealogy, emigration, immigration - from a Swedish perspective

and here... NOVA | A Short History of Quarantine
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Old 10-29-2014, 07:34 AM
 
178 posts, read 231,377 times
Reputation: 493
I don't understand what is going through her mind. If I was coming back from an Ebola infested area, I would voluntarily quarantine myself from everybody... especially to keep my family safe. I'm glad Maine is keeping her quarantined for the rest of the 21 day period. She is a strange nurse and isn't too bright if she can't understand why she is being quarantined.
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Old 10-29-2014, 07:34 AM
 
Location: In an indoor space
7,685 posts, read 6,168,027 times
Reputation: 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Too funny!
Everyone ragging on Christie for keeping her in isolation and he caves to the pressure.
Put her on a private leer jet.

LOL! Yeah Christie probably saw her as a $ liability as well as a prolonged bad press and got rid of her, now it's Maine's problem sadly.


She thought she was going to just have her way...... Only to have Maine isolate her, for the remaining 21 days, as per CDC protocol.
GOOD! In fact maybe Maine should send her to spend the rest of her life confinement in the middle of an ocean.
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Old 10-29-2014, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Meggett, SC
11,011 posts, read 10,983,795 times
Reputation: 6190
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
The state has rights. And the individual has rights. And since the self-monitoring protocol has been effective, even in the case of the NY doctor who came down with Ebola, but also in the case of the hundreds of health care workers around the world who've volunteered in the stricken countries and returned home, the state has to prove that the quarantine is warranted. And the science and the history don't bear that out.
I went round and round on this last night. I stated my case. I provided my evidence/articles/whatever. Why don't we try something different today? Why don't y'all prove I'm wrong? Find a case where someone successfully fought a quarantine order. That was my point. People just do not beat these quarantine orders in court. So Hickox can try, but I think she'll be unsuccessful in court if Maine decides to go that route.
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Old 10-29-2014, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,869 posts, read 24,324,752 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
the governor does have the right

isolation for medical purposes is not detention

ellis island for example was not only an entry point for emigrants, but also a Quarantine Stations (Plague houses

During the time of different kind of deseases, the people who arrived by ships to the New York harbour were quarantined on special Islands.


"In an act to prevent the bringing in and spreading of infectious distempers in the colony, and stipulated that vessels having small-pox, yellow fever or other contagious diseases aboard should stop on their way to the city at these Island and there be quarantined, under heavy penalties for disobedience".

What happend when a ship arrived?

Any yellow fever or cholera patients on an incoming vessels, a signal is set, and one of the steamers belonging to the New York quarantine service comes and brings the sufferers to the appropriate Island.

Immediately upon reaching the island they are stripped of their clothing, which is at once burned in a furnace constructed for that purpose, and they are placed in the sick wards.

1758 - Bedloe's (Liberty) Island - today "the site of the Statue of Liberty". Ships entering the harbour whose passengers and/or crew were infected with small-pox, cholera, yellow fever or other contagious diseases were held at the island's hospital. In 1796, the quarantine facility was moved to Governor's Island.


1796 - Nutten (Governor's) Island - This quarantine was not for long, due to the emergence of yellow fever on the island in 1799. The State Legislature made arrangements to purchase a larger site at Tompkinsville. The quarantine station began operating on that island the same year, 1799. (see below)



1799 -1858 - Staten Island – Tompkinsville - known as the Marine Hospital Grounds. The night of September 1, 1858 people came to the Island and burned it down. The remaining patients from Tompkinswille were transferred to different places. Those suffering from small-pox were moved to Blackwell's Island, patients with ship-fever were sent to Ward´s Island and the ones with yellow fever were sent to the floating hospital.


1847 - Ward's Island - (Also known as Tenkenas Island (translated to Wild Lands) at the time of its appropriation from its native inhabitants to the Dutch Settlers in 1637). Ship-fever patients were sent to this Island. The most important buildnings here were the Verplanck State Emigrant hospital, capable of holding 350 patients (it was the biggest hospital complex in the world during the 1850´s); the Refuge building for destitute women and children; and the New Barracks building for destitute male aliens.


1854 - Blackwell Island had a small-pox hospital on the Island from 1854. It was design by James Renwick Jr (who also designed Saint Patrick's Cathedral) and built by convict labor. It was the hospital in New York devoted to small-pox cases.

(The Island had several names changes - in 1921 from Blackwell's to Welfare and then in 1972 from Welfare to Roosevelt - as it is called even today).


1850-1890 - Castle Garden (Immigrant landing center). From 1855 to 1890, Castle Garden was America's first official immigration center. About 8.2 million immigrants were entered here. They used Blackwell Island if they had any smallpox patients and Ward´s Island for other deseaces.

1857 - Staten Island - Seguine Point - In early 1857, New York's Governor appointed three Quarantine Commissioners to find a new site. The Commissioners preference was Sandy Hook, but after having been refused the sale of the necessary parcel of land by the New Jersey's Legislature, they selected Seguine Point.
In the process, they had ignored the populated, nearby villages and the fact that its bay was too shallow to be easily accessed by the sea. Sometime just before midnight of May 6, approximately 20 vigilantes invaded Seguine Point and burned the place down. Seguine Point, was never rebuilt and Tompkinsville was continued in use. Instead, it would later be used as a burial ground for some of the immigrants that had succumbed to disease.


1859 - Floating hospital: steamship Falcon. The steamer Falcon, which had transported passengers to the gold rush fields of California, was refitted as a floating hospital. In late June of 1859, most of the remaining patients with yellow fever were transferred here from Tompkinsville.




April 23, 1863 - what is now known as the General Quarantine Act was passed, defining the quarantine establishment, authorizing its construction, creating the permanent office of Quarantine Commissioner, defining the duties and powers of the Commissioners and Health Officer, and establishing a general system of quarantine for the port in New York.

1870 and 1873 - Swinburne Island & Hoffman Island. The best solution for a permanent quarantine was eventually determined to be the creation of artificial islands in the Lower Bay. Using rip-rap with sand fill, work began on the construction of Swinburne Island and Hoffman Island around 1866. Swinbure completed 1870 and Hoffman in 1873. The facilities were closed on both islands by the end of the 1930s.

Jan 1, 1892-1954 - Ellis Island
Those immigrants that were ill with contagious diseases, were removed from the ships by Medical Inspectors and transferred to Hoffman and Swinburne Island. It was only the first and second-class cabin passengers. Passengers in the third-class had to wait for their examination later at Ellis Island. Ellis Island also had quarantine houses at the Island.



entire history here.... Ellis Island - Genealogy, emigration, immigration - from a Swedish perspective

and here... NOVA | A Short History of Quarantine

As I said, Ellis Island were foreign nationals trying to gain citizenship. They could lock them up.

They were not citizens already. This Nurse is a natural American Citizen. She has a right to due process. Ellis Island is not a good determination for this event.
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Old 10-29-2014, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,404,194 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
As I said, Ellis Island were foreign nationals trying to gain citizenship. They could lock them up.

They were not citizens already. This Nurse is a natural American Citizen. She has a right to due process. Ellis Island is not a good determination for this event.
she has a 'right to due process' in CRIMINAL DETENTION

she was exposed to an infectious disease....she NEEDS to be in isolation for public safety...her distain for the safety of the public (and her own family) is what is criminal

and the main point of the laws that are on the book are no about just emigrants, but also about those who travel

here is Canada:
Quote:
There are three quarantine Acts of Parliament in Canada: Quarantine Act (humans) and Health of Animals Act (animals) and Plant Protection Act (vegetations). The first legislation is enforced by the Canada Border Services Agency after a complete rewrite in 2005. The second and third legislations are enforced by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. If a health emergency exists, the Governor in Council can prohibit importation of anything that it deems necessary under the Quarantine Act.

Under the Quarantine Act, all travellers must submit to screening and if they believe they might have come into contact with communicable diseases or vectors, they must disclose their whereabouts to a Border Services Officer. If the officer has reasonable grounds to believe that the traveller is or might have been infected with a communicable disease or refused to provide answers, a quarantine officer (QO) must be called and the person is to be isolated. If a person refuses to be isolated, any peace officer may arrest without warrant.
here is the USA:
Quote:
The United States puts immediate quarantines on imported products if the disease can be traced back to a certain shipment or product. All imports will also be quarantined if the diseases breakout in other countries. According to Title42 U.S.C. §§264 and 266, these statutes provide the Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services (“the Secretary”) peacetime and wartime authority, respectively, to control the movement of persons into and within the United States to prevent the spread of communicable disease.

Communicable diseases for which apprehension, detention, or conditional release of persons are authorized must be set forth in Executive Orders of the President. Under Executive Order 12452 (April 4, 2003), and its amendments, the "Revised List of Quarantinable Communicable Diseases" includes the following infectious diseases: (1) cholera, (2) diphtheria, (3) infectious tuberculosis, (4) plague, (5) smallpox, (6) yellow fever, (7) viral hemorrhagic fevers (Lassa, Marburg, Ebola, Crimean-Congo, South American, and others not yet isolated or named), (8) SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome), and (9) influenza, from a novel or re-emergent source.[22] In the event of conflict of federal, state, local, and/or tribal health authorities in the use of legal quarantine power, federal law is supreme.[23
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarantine

Last edited by workingclasshero; 10-29-2014 at 07:51 AM..
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Old 10-29-2014, 07:43 AM
 
2,649 posts, read 1,834,495 times
Reputation: 3107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Exactly, this is the way the legal system is supposed to work. Arm chair quarter backing about "what I would do" is not helping the situation. No one knows what they'd do be locked in a cage for 3 weeks without their consent, and without due process.

Ellis Island weren't citizens, they were foreign nationals seeking entry into our country. We could do whatever the hell we wanted with them. She is a natural US citizen, as such, she has rights to due process.
What about our "Rights?" Of course she has rights. So does everyone she comes in contact with.
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Old 10-29-2014, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,869 posts, read 24,324,752 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
she has a 'right to due process' in CRIMINAL DETENTION

she was exposed to an infectious disease....she NEEDS to be in isolation for public safety...her distain for the safety of the public (and her own family) is what is criminal

and the main point of the laws that are on the book are no about just emigrants, but also about those who travel

here is Canada:


here is the USA:

Quarantine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quarantine doesn't apply in her case, as she is showing no symptoms. Also, quarantine is usually at someones home, not in a hospital tent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mollygee View Post
What about our "Rights?" Of course she has rights. So does everyone she comes in contact with.
The Flu can kill you, but we don't lock people up with that.

If I were treating ebola patients, I wouldn't mind being locked in a house. I wouldn't be happy about being blindsided by being locked in a tent without my prior knowledge. She has every right to file suit.
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