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I don't know why it is so important to some people to "show", so you think, post after post including links from as dubious a source as "60 Minutes", basically an entertainment show, and certainly NOT a scientific show, that these two nurses SCREWED UP, BIG TIME! I don't know why this has to be brought up, again and again! Does it make some posters here feel better, to think that if they encounter Ebola, as long as they're not as dumb as these two, they won't get it? Early in this thread, someone went on and on about denial. This, my friends, is denial. "The protocols worked"; "they must have done something wrong to get sick", yada, yada, yada.
Was at work yesterday and I appreciate Katiana's stout defense of the nurses. Here is the picture you may be missing. The patient is in a room which is awash in bacteria and virus. He is constantly bleeding on himself vomiting from his tube into his lungs and launches forward and backward side to side. Each time he does he sprays vomitus blood and particles into the room, on his bed on the protective clothing and into the air. In addition, the bed linens require frequent changes which require rolling th patient to one side and the other, cleaning the mattress and laying down fresh linens while the patient is in the bed sick bleeding and moving (unless he is paralyzed). It is a violent, bloody and dangerous work environment. It would take nothing at all for a small breach of viral material to enter a persons airway, nose, eyes or skin. In addition to this from the central line placed into his body blood is taken for frequent tests, and placed into lab tubes and these tubes are cleaned and put into containers and transmitted to the lab. When the nurse leaves the room they must take of PPE in a specific manner and this process now is monitored by a watcher. This is most likely where the contamination occurred to these two nurses.
They are brave, and noble and human. I hope that people credit them for their courage. The people who do not we already know are either idiots or posers.
I don't know why it is so important to some people to "show", so you think, post after post including links from as dubious a source as "60 Minutes", basically an entertainment show, and certainly NOT a scientific show, that these two nurses SCREWED UP, BIG TIME! I don't know why this has to be brought up, again and again! Does it make some posters here feel better, to think that if they encounter Ebola, as long as they're not as dumb as these two, they won't get it? Early in this thread, someone went on and on about denial. This, my friends, is denial. "The protocols worked"; "they must have done something wrong to get sick", yada, yada, yada.
I truly don't think the majority of posters that you are arguing with are trying to say that the nurses screwed up, at all. It's not a reflection on them that they hadn't been trained or prepared to deal with a deadly virus that had previously only been seen on the other side of the world. The virus seems to be hard to catch when the patient isn't actively shedding, or even in the early stages of shedding. But when the later stages of shedding occur, the viral load is so high that it becomes highly contagious. Both nurses dealt with the patient when the viral load was skyrocketing. The nurses weren't trained to deal with this SPECIFIC threat. That doesn't make them screw-ups, or anything less than highly trained and competent professionals dealing with something they weren't familiar with.
Those nurses interviewed on 60 minutes were not in the ICU.
John Mulligan, the male nurse with glasses , was with Duncan when he passed in the ICU. The black nurse cared for both Duncan and nurse Pham in the ICU.
We do know that nurse Pham was involved in Duncan's initial transport to the ICU before test results were known. We're those professionals who had contact with Duncan's fluids before invasive procedures incur more risk?
What the public does not know is who performed or assisted with the intubation, catherization, dialysis and rectal tubing. Did involvement in the more invasive procedures increase risks?
AADAD mentioned blood, a huge risk factor in any medical procedure.
They are all heros in my book. To think how the media and some politicians manipulated Ebola for ratings and political gain.......while healthcare workers went and did what most would not do.
I don't know why it is so important to some people to "show", so you think, post after post including links from as dubious a source as "60 Minutes", basically an entertainment show, and certainly NOT a scientific show, that these two nurses SCREWED UP, BIG TIME! I don't know why this has to be brought up, again and again! Does it make some posters here feel better, to think that if they encounter Ebola, as long as they're not as dumb as these two, they won't get it? Early in this thread, someone went on and on about denial. This, my friends, is denial. "The protocols worked"; "they must have done something wrong to get sick", yada, yada, yada.
why do some people want to be apologist for healthcare system?
So if a healthcare worker (not just a nurse, but most likely a nurse due to amount of contact) gets sick from Ebola at a hospital it is because
1 - the strain has evolved, and precautions are not sufficient
2 - the strain has not evolved, and precautions being taken were not sufficient
So, when doctors used to go from the morgue to delivering babies, without washing hands, and causing huge complications with delivery. . was it the doctors fault? Yes. Did the doctors grasp what was needed to perform their actions without making people sick? no
So its pretty obvious that number 2 resulted in two nurses getting sick at Texas
no other facility has had a problem, and no additional healthcare workers getting sick
By fault i'm sticking to the stickiest definition:
1) Hospitals with appropriate rules have a proven track record of caring for Ebola patients without risking healthcare workers lives (6 total patients)
2)Texas Hospital cared for 1 patient and resulted in two illnesses.
I see no reason that Nurses (that is why I say healthcare workers or system) should be blamed primarily. I've seen no evidence that they were told 100% what to do, and ignored the rules blatantly.
Yet I have seen a lot of evidence that if the rules are precautions are followed, Ebola doesn't pose a risk to healthcare workers.
why do some people want to be apologist for healthcare system?
So if a healthcare worker (not just a nurse, but most likely a nurse due to amount of contact) gets sick from Ebola at a hospital it is because
1 - the strain has evolved, and precautions are not sufficient
2 - the strain has not evolved, and precautions being taken were not sufficient
So, when doctors used to go from the morgue to delivering babies, without washing hands, and causing huge complications with delivery. . was it the doctors fault? Yes. Did the doctors grasp what was needed to perform their actions without making people sick? no
So its pretty obvious that number 2 resulted in two nurses getting sick at Texas
no other facility has had a problem, and no additional healthcare workers getting sick
By fault i'm sticking to the stickiest definition:
1) Hospitals with appropriate rules have a proven track record of caring for Ebola patients without risking healthcare workers lives (6 total patients)
2)Texas Hospital cared for 1 patient and resulted in two illnesses.
I see no reason that Nurses (that is why I say healthcare workers or system) should be blamed primarily. I've seen no evidence that they were told 100% what to do, and ignored the rules blatantly.
Yet I have seen a lot of evidence that if the rules are precautions are followed, Ebola doesn't pose a risk to healthcare workers.
There have been nine Ebola patients treated in the United States.
Was at work yesterday and I appreciate Katiana's stout defense of the nurses. Here is the picture you may be missing. The patient is in a room which is awash in bacteria and virus. He is constantly bleeding on himself vomiting from his tube into his lungs and launches forward and backward side to side. Each time he does he sprays vomitus blood and particles into the room, on his bed on the protective clothing and into the air. In addition, the bed linens require frequent changes which require rolling th patient to one side and the other, cleaning the mattress and laying down fresh linens while the patient is in the bed sick bleeding and moving (unless he is paralyzed). It is a violent, bloody and dangerous work environment. It would take nothing at all for a small breach of viral material to enter a persons airway, nose, eyes or skin. In addition to this from the central line placed into his body blood is taken for frequent tests, and placed into lab tubes and these tubes are cleaned and put into containers and transmitted to the lab. When the nurse leaves the room they must take of PPE in a specific manner and this process now is monitored by a watcher. This is most likely where the contamination occurred to these two nurses.
They are brave, and noble and human. I hope that people credit them for their courage. The people who do not we already know are either idiots or posers.
We do life saving work.
Absolutely, and I firmly believe it's the nurses that do the healing and not so much the doctors.
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