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Old 10-16-2014, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
10,029 posts, read 8,331,117 times
Reputation: 4212

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
Good for him, always good to see a good guy win. That said, I do have one concern; if the assailant was only 8 feet away and he shot twice how did he miss the kid? Really, 8 feet, heck my wife could hit everything in front of her from over 15 feet the day she brought her new Bersa .380 handgun home and fired it for the very first time. Sounds like he needs to spend a little less time walking around in bad areas of town until he does more range time, until then it sounds like he might be more of a danger to those around him than the criminals he might encounter.
Shooting at a moving target under stress in the dark is way different that shooting static targets at a range. His results are not uncommon. Your comparison to your wife isn't valid in any way.

PS: Friends don't let friends buy a .380

Why would you want an under powered, hard to find, and over priced caliber?
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
10,029 posts, read 8,331,117 times
Reputation: 4212
Quote:
Originally Posted by muleskinner View Post
Most "gun fights" happen within 25' or less so the practice needs to be repetitive in that range if someone is not a hunter and carries only for protection..two tap center mass and pause
I'm just curious....where did you get that 25' stat? Cite?
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,904,691 times
Reputation: 5932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Roma View Post
Shooting at a moving target under stress in the dark is way different that shooting static targets at a range. His results are not uncommon. Your comparison to your wife isn't valid in any way.

PS: Friends don't let friends buy a .380

Why would you want an under powered, hard to find, and over priced caliber?
Says nothing about him being a moving target, you are assuming. It says they were 8 feet away and that is well with the range anyone with any skill with their weapon should be able to hit.

Sure it is, because when you think range time it is different from what those that shoot guns all the time actually do. When we practice we do so while standing still, while on the move and from several different positions and even with moving targets. You should try it some time it is a lot more fun that standing still and firing at a paper target.

With the new loads available from companies like Hornady a .380 is a fine gun for up close work and will do the job required. Many women, especially the smaller women, find it a far easier gun to manage and get proficient with and that is what is high on the list of requirements when it comes to firing guns. That said she can also shoot my 9mm, .40cal, and .44mag and has become proficient with all of them but the last one, but she just prefers her .380. especially when she carries. Not over priced the gun cost less than most 9mm's and is fairly compact and the rounds cost me the same or less than good quality 9mm's. Hard to find my arse, Cabella's, Academy, Bass Pro and Gander Mountain all sell the guns and the ammo and when you find a good deal smart people stock up. Your opinion is one that was correct back in the 70's and 80's things have changed dramatically since then and with the new loads available they are a very good main gun for a small woman or as a backup for ones main gun.
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Old 10-16-2014, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
11,078 posts, read 15,054,854 times
Reputation: 3936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
Correct and that is how smart people practice and improve their shooting skills, missing twice from 8 feet away from someone that has also fired their weapon is not the sign of a person that has done much in the way of preparing to actually use the gun their are carrying. I have zero problem with people carrying guns, but come on folks use some common sense, if you do not actually practice and learn how to use the tool properly you may be as much a danger to yourself and those around you as you are to those you are trying to defend against. Hopefully now that the dust has cleared he will realize some serious range time is in order.
Yes...collateral damage is what you want to practice to avoid..I feel the same as you,if you carry,practice and that goes triple for cops who are the laziest of lazy at range time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Roma View Post
Shooting at a moving target under stress in the dark is way different that shooting static targets at a range. His results are not uncommon. Your comparison to your wife isn't valid in any way.

PS: Friends don't let friends buy a .380

Why would you want an under powered, hard to find, and over priced caliber?
Exactly..while 99% of the guys I knew carried .380 as a backup weapon,I ALWAYS carried a Charter Arms Bulldog Pug in .44spl...want to talk about something being a bear cat to qualify with?lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Roma View Post
I'm just curious....where did you get that 25' stat? Cite?
Many,many years of reading Combat Handguns (before it was an envouge rag),CAS,SAS,participation and listening instead of mouthing,reading Massad Ayoob(pretty much everything he wrote back in the 80's..pre blog era),everything Bill Jordan or Elmer Keith ever wrote,studying the case history (and witness interviews) of the Mike Rosa shooting ,standard peace officers training in 3 states,ERT training in one area..heard it all my life and Massad studied every LEO shooting that occurred for eons...I gather you don't have much weapons experience if you do not know that? How long is a vehicle?In a traffic stop,how far are you parked away from a subject's vehicle?a lot of gunfights are from driver's door of the stopped vehicle to the patrol cars driver's door...etc etc etc my old man was a gun freak deluxe years and years before the fad hit and he drove it into my head from birth(we would shoot walnuts off of trees for a dollar a miss ) ..I also learned a lot about that 25' distance from sitting pickup truck door to pickup truck door from guys like this(I was quicker than the average duck,this guy was LIGHTENING )..I was raised in his "area"....he knew Bill Jordan well and Bill Jordan knew what real world gunfights were all about..not a poser.
Ed Cantrell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On a side note,I no longer participate in anything other than a bit of plinking with my kids,coyote hunting for the challenge and and an occasional post on this site..the "new breed" of gunner is so much smarter than anyone else and so in most forums I am dismissed as an idiot because I do not follow every new gun model that's the current fad or worship the latest know it all blogger...so,as for the 25' reference? I stand by it...I've done my research,do your own my brother
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Old 10-16-2014, 08:35 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,512,309 times
Reputation: 18520
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
(crickets)
Crickets are out at 3, 4 & 5 in the morning.
Those in Cali, just went to bed.
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Old 10-16-2014, 08:39 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,512,309 times
Reputation: 18520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
Correct and that is how smart people practice and improve their shooting skills, missing twice from 8 feet away from someone that has also fired their weapon is not the sign of a person that has done much in the way of preparing to actually use the gun their are carrying. I have zero problem with people carrying guns, but come on folks use some common sense, if you do not actually practice and learn how to use the tool properly you may be as much a danger to yourself and those around you as you are to those you are trying to defend against. Hopefully now that the dust has cleared he will realize some serious range time is in order.
It comes from the will to kill.
A lot of those that pack heat for protection, do not have to will to be lethal, because they are good people, taught not to kill. Same as you see men get pummeled because they were taught not to fight back.
You get misses at 8 ft.
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Old 10-16-2014, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Purgatory
6,367 posts, read 6,244,607 times
Reputation: 9889
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
(crickets)
Crickets because most Ds are not as *anti-gun* to the level that Rs are *paranoid* about them being taken away.

And of course, if the kid could not access a gun in the first place like in many/most other first world nations....
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
11,078 posts, read 15,054,854 times
Reputation: 3936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian Slums View Post
Crickets because most Ds are not as *anti-gun* to the level that Rs are *paranoid* about them being taken away.

And of course, if the kid could not access a gun in the first place like in many/most other first world nations....
Exactly that horsecrap every bit started with the NRA backing Reagan and the propaganda machine started..it looks like the one's "skeered" of losing their gun rights would research who actually votes against gun ownership rather than spouting talking points from their NRA emails etc..."study to show thyself approved" I think if they ever did that they would get really PO'd at themselves for listening to the rheotoric spewed by the ignorant or those with an agenda.
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:17 AM
 
4,412 posts, read 3,950,944 times
Reputation: 2325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian Slums View Post
Crickets because most Ds are not as *anti-gun* to the level that Rs are *paranoid* about them being taken away.

And of course, if the kid could not access a gun in the first place like in many/most other first world nations....
No kidding. Not being a fan of open carry, or believing in some measure of laws to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, or to prevent staw sales to criminals, does not make one anti-gun.
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:17 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,797,822 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by muleskinner View Post
Exactly that horsecrap every bit started with the NRA backing Reagan and the propaganda machine started..it looks like the one's "skeered" of losing their gun rights would research who actually votes against gun ownership rather than spouting talking points from their NRA emails etc..."study to show thyself approved" I think if they ever did that they would get really PO'd at themselves for listening to the rheotoric spewed by the ignorant or those with an agenda.
You should come join me in california where the democrats repeatedly try and take away guns. They have already banned wholes classes of arms from purchase, confiscating legal property, etc.

Gun control/confiscation/ban are a reality in the deep blue states.
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