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Old 01-06-2008, 08:48 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,406,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
To the contrary, you don't know me at all now, do you?
Another two-sets-of-rules post, given your earlier gratuitous insult. All I did was characterize my impression of your posts...that's all I've got to go by.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Or the number of kids we help through school? Or the Orphanage in Mexico we helped to build with my trusty hammer. Or the number of "builds" we have been on for Habatit for Humanity. Or the members of our military we help - and bury.
Toot that horn. You think this makes you special? You've gone above and beyond, here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
You live in your little isolated world and don't get to see much are the "real" America
What was that first point? You don't know me at all now, do you? or something like that?
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:24 AM
 
1,267 posts, read 3,283,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
To the contrary, you don't know me at all now, do you?

Or the number of kids we help through school? Or the Orphanage in Mexico we helped to build with my trusty hammer. Or the number of "builds" we have been on for Habatit for Humanity. Or the members of our military we help - and bury.
do you think there are enough "habitat for humanities" (non-profits) out there to balance some of the inequities that can come of situations that foster concentration of wealth and "every one for themselves" (which HFH is in the business of doing to a significant extent, essentially)? do you think that the accessibility of the help would generally be there? and do you think that the help would be so helpful so regularly (as habitat can tend to be) among organizations that are not watched by some standard (legal, ethical, quality, etc.) that tends to come from a more centralized government (you've eliminated more than 5000 federal agencies etc. in this scenario)? doesn't HFH do a lot of work on US HUD (a federal resource) homes? and if there IS some oversight and standardization of some sort, doesn't it begin to look like centralized government again? i know nothing (including what we have or what other countries have) is perfect...but which is better?

as always, honest questions. i'm listening.
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,172,642 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by hello-world View Post
do you think there are enough "habitat for humanities" (non-profits) out there to balance some of the inequities that can come of situations that foster concentration of wealth and "every one for themselves" (which HFH is in the business of doing to a significant extent, essentially)? .
Habitat is a private, non government funded, organization. They rely on private / corporate donations for funding. They rely on volunteers to build the homes.

The ONLY possible governmental involvement is the land - if a political subdivision has designated an area for re-development or affordable housing, Habitat will sometimes get "first dibs" on BUYING the land. Most political subdivisions (actually, none that I know of) give any breaks financially on things like sewer hookups, water meter hookups etc

Those who get a Habitat home are buying the home - they pay back the loan - they pay property taxes. The home is not given to them - in fact, one of the requirements is that the owner has to have some "sweat equity" in the home -
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:39 AM
 
1,267 posts, read 3,283,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Another two-sets-of-rules post, given your earlier gratuitous insult. All I did was characterize my impression of your posts...that's all I've got to go by.


Toot that horn. You think this makes you special? You've gone above and beyond, here?


What was that first point? You don't know me at all now, do you? or something like that?
to be fair, i personally think that working on an orphanage in mexico and working for HFH are above and beyond, relative to much of the american (or human, probably...perhaps mammalian) population. it's unfortunate, to me, but seemingly true. of course, all those people working for non-profits and some federal institutes do this kind of thing every day, sometimes without even realizing it, but...
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:51 AM
 
1,267 posts, read 3,283,235 times
Reputation: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Habitat is a private, non government funded, organization. They rely on private / corporate donations for funding. They rely on volunteers to build the homes.

The ONLY possible governmental involvement is the land - if a political subdivision has designated an area for re-development or affordable housing, Habitat will sometimes get "first dibs" on BUYING the land. Most political subdivisions (actually, none that I know of) give any breaks financially on things like sewer hookups, water meter hookups etc

Those who get a Habitat home are buying the home - they pay back the loan - they pay property taxes. The home is not given to them - in fact, one of the requirements is that the owner has to have some "sweat equity" in the home -
yes, i understand HFH is a "non-government" non-profit, though they do do a lot of work on HUD homes (i.e., there wouldn't be so much to do with out the housing and urban development department - federal agency -homes). hud homes are financed, for example, with cheap subsidized (by the federal government) loans. and HFH has to meet some federal standards in terms of ethics here and abroad, right? and i think it's good that people are getting some of these homes and paying property taxes (towards centralized municipal government - so i gather that you support that, anyhow). could this be so enabled without some federal infusion there? the land dibs? the loans to the borrowers?

speaking of mexico, though...you worked for HFH there? hm. that sounds excellent. how did you get involved with that project? do you recommend a way of getting involved?
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,172,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hello-world View Post
hud homes are financed, for example, with cheap subsidized (by the federal government) loans.
I'm sorry but, every Habitat home I have been involved with, and, it is a significant number, was NOT FINANCIED with a government loan - Habitat financed it -

As for the Orphanage - it was not Habitat related.

BTW, Habitat does not "work on HUD homes". HUD homes are properties that have been foreclosed on and are now in HUD's inventory - and those homes are available to everyone -
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:58 AM
 
3,570 posts, read 3,741,930 times
Reputation: 1344
Quote:
Originally Posted by hello-world View Post
and too see beyond more immediate concerns or consider too many factors at once. depending as always on how you look at it, maybe one of the more significant shortcomings of human nature, in some ways.
Do you think it would be easy for someone to do long term planning when they are struggling just to keep a roof over their head, and net an average of 5 hours leisure times per day, which would also include time to sleep?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hello-world View Post

as for "bell curves", i am not sure that "picking yourself up by the boot straps" has much to do with "intelligence, as defined by any bell curve". in fact, i can think of some people in positions of authority and with plenty in the bank that some/many/most/maybe all of us might consider to fall well short of "intelligent" as any bell curve might indicate...
I included "merit" or what some perceive as merit.


Quote:
in fact, they might be where they are by virtue, solely, of the position/wealth/family they were born into almost regardless of their mental capacity.
Precisely. Wealth does not look like an upside down u flattened on the ends. If it were about merit (working hard) and intelligence, it would look very similar.
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Old 01-06-2008, 11:00 AM
 
1,267 posts, read 3,283,235 times
Reputation: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
I'm sorry but, every Habitat home I have been involved with, and, it is a significant number, was NOT FINANCIED with a government loan - Habitat financed it -

As for the Orphanage - it was not Habitat related.

BTW, Habitat does not "work on HUD homes". HUD homes are properties that have been foreclosed on and are now in HUD's inventory - and those homes are available to everyone -
look up HUD. i understand this is your area of expertise, so apologies for overstepping any of that. but, HUD does effect lower interest loans. maybe the non-profit buys the place with a HUD loan, then pays off that loan by providing the financing for the home buyer they build it for. or maybe someone qualifies (with, in part, a low income) for a loan under HUD. but either way, the federal government may be involved. (well, it's probably definitely involved, considering that things like freddie mac and fannie mae are federal...and this is not to say that some of these things couldn't be done BETTER in some ways, maybe, be it by the fed, or otherwise.)
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Old 01-06-2008, 11:01 AM
 
3,570 posts, read 3,741,930 times
Reputation: 1344
Quote:
Originally Posted by hello-world View Post
doesn't HFH do a lot of work on US HUD (a federal resource) homes? and if there IS some oversight and standardization of some sort, doesn't it begin to look like centralized government again? i know nothing (including what we have or what other countries have) is perfect...but which is better?
HUD isn't just for Section8 recipients. They have a ton of programs for first time home buyers.
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Old 01-06-2008, 11:02 AM
 
3,570 posts, read 3,741,930 times
Reputation: 1344
Quote:
Originally Posted by hello-world View Post
to be fair, i personally think that working on an orphanage in mexico and working for HFH are above and beyond, relative to much of the american (or human, probably...perhaps mammalian) population. it's unfortunate, to me, but seemingly true. of course, all those people working for non-profits and some federal institutes do this kind of thing every day, sometimes without even realizing it, but...
Those who chose to work for non-profits, and have trouble making ends meet as a result, have themselves to blame, for making a poor choice of employment....
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