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The causes of inflation are well understood. The fact remains: gas is cheaper today per hour of human labor than it was in the 60's.
Link?
Not saying you're wrong, but according to my memory banks gas was around 30 cents/gal say around 1969. Suppose that mpg has tripled since then (generous, I think). So it becomes the equivalent of 90 cents/gal. A good middle class job back then was about $20K, or 10/hr. Today it is about $50K, or $25/hr. So today's gas price would have to be below .90*2.5, or $2.25/gal to make your statement true. I have a recent receipt right here on my desk, and the price reads $3.65/gal. Note that the gas tax here is one of the highest in the nation, but not enough to make up a $1.40 difference.
Not saying you're wrong, but according to my memory banks gas was around 30 cents/gal say around 1969. Suppose that mpg has tripled since then (generous, I think). So it becomes the equivalent of 90 cents/gal. A good middle class job back then was about $20K, or 10/hr. Today it is about $50K, or $25/hr. So today's gas price would have to be below .90*2.5, or $2.25/gal to make your statement true. I have a recent receipt right here on my desk, and the price reads $3.65/gal. Note that the gas tax here is one of the highest in the nation, but not enough to make up a $1.40 difference.
In California, we pay $0.73 gallon in taxes - highest in the nation. In 1969 it was 5 cents combined. There isn't much difference when you use the wholesale price of gasoline net of state and federal taxes and adjusted for inflation. It's cheaper today.
When our social services support your business by funding your employees I disagree.
Well, lets look at something...
Let's take an agricultural laborer, since they produce things we all kind of understand, and give him an hourly rate of $16 (making figures easier). During the course of raising say peaches, each peach will use say about 15 man minutes of total labor from preparations, to irrigation, to fertilizing, to pest control, to harvesting and packing to getting it to the actual store.
Would you pay $4 for one peach?
That's just wage costs, it doesn't include the price of fertilizer, fuel, pesticides, vehicle maintenance, etc. Let's call that a whole $1.
Would you pay $5 for one Georgia peach with the associated costs? (and a standard peach, not some organic boutique peach that comes gift wrapped in it's own minibasket)
Currently the USDA is reporting the average advertized store price is $1.69/pound and they're Californian not Georgia.
Our social services (and other government subsidies) are supporting our businesses who pay minimum wage, who can then charge lower prices for the consumer who will not pay higher prices to support higher wages and therefore eliminate the corporate or personal welfare aspect. You are also benefiting from social services, you realize this? Yes?
It's an Ouroboros, the snake (consumer) eats it's own tail, and if you can't see that, there is no hope. However when money is paid into social services, all of it does not come out, because there's administration and wages for people who in any private industry might be $1-$2 per hour above minimum, but because they're federal employee's they're pulling in 6 figure salaries plus benefits, and you know why? Because you do not want to pay the fair price for a US grown peach, you don't mind getting another 2-3% tax hike, but damn if you'd pay for peaches at around $5 each.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
When we have a failure to grow wages at all, and even lower the median all the while our average is going up.....I think we had better take a serious look at it. I dont know that I have any fair solution. But I do know we need a solution, a minimum wage of reasonable value is one of them....others are more complex and far ranging.
You can have a reasonable minimum wage, you just need to increase the consumer pricing to cover it.
That is an issue however, because US goods have to compete with imports, when Raúl in Brazil is peach picking he's making 10 Reals per hour (assuming 40 hours), which is $4 give or take (and he's not a day laborer, but a fully hired worker) or 25% of a $16/hour minimum wage, and $3.25 less than current US Federal Minimum wage. So if you had US peaches as $5/peach or Brazilian peaches at $1.75 per pound, what are people going to buy?
Let's take an agricultural laborer, since they produce things we all kind of understand, and give him an hourly rate of $16 (making figures easier). During the course of raising say peaches, each peach will use say about 15 man minutes of total labor from preparations, to irrigation, to fertilizing, to pest control, to harvesting and packing to getting it to the actual store.
Would you pay $4 for one peach?
That's just wage costs, it doesn't include the price of fertilizer, fuel, pesticides, vehicle maintenance, etc. Let's call that a whole $1.
Would you pay $5 for one Georgia peach with the associated costs? (and a standard peach, not some organic boutique peach that comes gift wrapped in it's own minibasket)
Currently the USDA is reporting the average advertized store price is $1.69/pound and they're Californian not Georgia.
Our social services (and other government subsidies) are supporting our businesses who pay minimum wage, who can then charge lower prices for the consumer who will not pay higher prices to support higher wages and therefore eliminate the corporate or personal welfare aspect. You are also benefiting from social services, you realize this? Yes?
It's an Ouroboros, the snake (consumer) eats it's own tail, and if you can't see that, there is no hope. However when money is paid into social services, all of it does not come out, because there's administration and wages for people who in any private industry might be $1-$2 per hour above minimum, but because they're federal employee's they're pulling in 6 figure salaries plus benefits, and you know why? Because you do not want to pay the fair price for a US grown peach, you don't mind getting another 2-3% tax hike, but damn if you'd pay for peaches at around $5 each.
You can have a reasonable minimum wage, you just need to increase the consumer pricing to cover it.
That is an issue however, because US goods have to compete with imports, when Raúl in Brazil is peach picking he's making 10 Reals per hour (assuming 40 hours), which is $4 give or take (and he's not a day laborer, but a fully hired worker) or 25% of a $16/hour minimum wage, and $3.25 less than current US Federal Minimum wage. So if you had US peaches as $5/peach or Brazilian peaches at $1.75 per pound, what are people going to buy?
Sorry but subsidizing a business in order to make peaches cheaper is not exactly a good free market choice. You're defending a bad idea.
Well the hypocrites fighting for $20/hour are only offering $13/hour for an employee.
Explaining string theory to a stick is roughly as fruitful as pointing out hypocrisy to a leftist. Neither is capable of understanding the subject matter.
"McDonald's reported its worst profit and sales numbers in a decade on Tuesday, suffering losses in EVERY major segment of business. By contrast IN-N-OUT Burger, which pays workers $10-14/hour plus health, dental, and 401(k) retirement benefits, continues to thrive and has been consistently ranked as the top fast food chain in The US by Consumer Reports."
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