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Old 12-31-2007, 03:39 PM
 
Location: CA
31 posts, read 64,248 times
Reputation: 25

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
All the more easy then, for a non KKK member to appropriate the well-known symbols and methods of the KKK to incite racial disharmony.


It may very well turn out that the vandalism was an intricate scheme by "whitey" to.... what?..... incite negative feelings towards a notorious Central American gang?...... but I hope you realize that at this point, that isn't the first thing that pops into the minds of most rational people observing the situation.
Honestly, no that was not my first thought, but aren't you stretching it just a bit there?
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Old 12-31-2007, 03:42 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
16,226 posts, read 27,324,447 times
Reputation: 31488
Quote:
Originally Posted by alely View Post
Was it not an unfortunate incident?
An unfortunate incident would be something like stubbing your toe, or getting a hangnail. Tapping the car in front of you by not stopping in time, or realizing you've squandered your time on the internet chatting with sock puppets, those would all be considered 'an unfortunate incident'.

Desecrating a war memorial commemorating the lives of the thousands of US Citizens who fought for our country, and at the same time using it to make a 'war cry' threat against a group of people based on the color of their skin is a teensy weensy tad more than an unfortunate incident. Just a smidgen, but I hope you understand the difference.
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Old 12-31-2007, 03:51 PM
 
17,290 posts, read 29,325,811 times
Reputation: 8691
Quote:
Originally Posted by alely View Post
Honestly, no that was not my first thought, but aren't you stretching it just a bit there?
Who's stretching what?

YOU and a couple others seem to immediately want to "explain away" the incident as someone (whitey? a rival gang?) vandalizing the memorial for some reason.

By blaming the incident on the MS-13, then, the only logical assumption is that the person did it to falsely accuse MS-13 and bring negative attention and opinions against them. But I fail to see the purpose....... because they're ALREADY a brutal street gang, and it's not like they (MS-13) have a good image that's being tarnished.
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Old 12-31-2007, 03:53 PM
 
Location: CA
31 posts, read 64,248 times
Reputation: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
An unfortunate incident would be something like stubbing your toe, or getting a hangnail. Tapping the car in front of you by not stopping in time, or realizing you've squandered your time on the internet chatting with sock puppets, those would all be considered 'an unfortunate incident'.

Desecrating a war memorial commemorating the lives of the thousands of US Citizens who fought for our country, and at the same time using it to make a 'war cry' threat against a group of people based on the color of their skin is a teensy weensy tad more than an unfortunate incident. Just a smidgen, but I hope you understand the difference.
The fact that when relating to what was being spoken about, concerning the fact that it might or might not be a trend, where I specifically gave my opinion that it is indeed not a trend it is indeed an unfortunate incident:

un·for·tu·nate - /ʌnˈfɔrtʃənɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uhn-fawr-chuh-nit] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –adjective
3. Regrettable or deplorable.
5. Lamentable; sad

in·ci·dent - /ˈɪndənt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-si-duhnt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun
1. An individual occurence or event.
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:01 PM
 
Location: CA
31 posts, read 64,248 times
Reputation: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Who's stretching what?

YOU and a couple others seem to immediately want to "explain away" the incident as someone (whitey? a rival gang?) vandalizing the memorial for some reason.

By blaming the incident on the MS-13, then, the only logical assumption is that the person did it to falsely accuse MS-13 and bring negative attention and opinions against them. But I fail to see the purpose....... because they're ALREADY a brutal street gang, and it's not like they (MS-13) have a good image that's being tarnished.
But was it not that?

I don't believe that anyone else but the gang did it. They probably did it for the attention, to draw attention to themselves within the community, but obviously they probably didn't think it would end up on the news and then on youtube, but hey that's life.
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,281 posts, read 2,363,351 times
Reputation: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
Where did I state that you said "ALL anti illegals are racists???" I challenge you to find a single quote from me implying that.
here is where it is implied:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
So please, as stated earlier, stop trying to paint the anti-illegal crowd with the brush of racism.
Since you completely misread my original post, I’ll copy it for you:
Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
My guess is that some anti-illegal-immigrant US citizen could have done it to create the controversy and spread the flame of hate against illegal immigrants and those of the same color. Racists don’t always wait for a catalyst to start the race war, they seem ok to create one.
Notice how it is singular (citizen and not citizens)? Within the context of this single individual, I identify them as a racist? Of course the straw man argument is getting tiring but I understand why you would want to use it. For your benefit though I’ll clarify my belief, not all persons who are against illegal immigrant is a racist, but there are some who are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
How fascinating that you think someone is living in fantasyland if they don't believe in or accept your hypotheses. I don't expect you to look at this situation objectively because you have made your obstinence abundantly apparent. Whatever floats your boat - hypothesize until the cows come home as far as I'm concerned.
I prefer to use modifiers such as “may” as in “the persons who committed this crime may be associated with the group ms-13 based on the writing”, however I wont jump to a definitive conclusion like many on this thread and state with firm conviction it is some group mostly comprised of illegal immigrants who committed the crime based on the graffit alone.

Plus I never said they are living in fantasy land “if” they don’t believe in my hypothoses but “if” they believe no person could be so unethical to create their own controversy. There is a difference that you seem to keep missing. Can it happen? Yes. Did it happen? Don’t know, there is always a possibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
I personally don't care if aliens from the planet Nebulon did this - whoever did it needs to be PUNISHED to the full extent of the law. Period.
I agree, however during investigations, the most likely suspect is not always the actual perpetrator of the crime. Many times they are, sometimes they are not.
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,281 posts, read 2,363,351 times
Reputation: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
but I hope you realize that at this point, that isn't the first thing that pops into the minds of most rational people observing the situation.
The thing that would pop into the mind of rational people would be : it’s unfortunate this has to happen; I wonder if it is actually ms13 who did it; I hope it isnt some sick prank by someone else; what is ms13; I wonder if the police have any leads; I wonder why someone would do this; I hope the perpetrators are brought to justice…

The thing that pops into the mind of an emotionally driven person lacking the ability to rationally think the issue through is : it must be some ms13 type; ms13 is mostly illegal immigrants; this was done by illegal immigrants!
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,366,017 times
Reputation: 783
It's amazing that the pro-illegal crowd immediately starts exploring other possibilities of who did this. Heaven knows their beloved illegals couldn't have done it, after all, they're just good people looking for a better life right?
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,281 posts, read 2,363,351 times
Reputation: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
YOU and a couple others seem to immediately want to "explain away" the incident as someone (whitey? a rival gang?) vandalizing the memorial for some reason..
During investigations there are certain questions that are asked, a couple obvious ones are : who is the most likely suspect(s)? who would benefit from the crime?

You would be surprised at how often the answer to the 2nd question is not the same as the first and turns out to be the actually perpetrator.

I don’t think anyone is trying to explain it all away but at least show where when all you have is a new story showing the effects of a crime doesn’t mean you now have all the conclusive evidence of who committed the crime.
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:20 PM
 
17,290 posts, read 29,325,811 times
Reputation: 8691
Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
During investigations there are certain questions that are asked, a couple obvious ones are : who is the most likely suspect(s)? who would benefit from the crime?

You would be surprised at how often the answer to the 2nd question is not the same as the first and turns out to be the actually perpetrator.

I don’t think anyone is trying to explain it all away but at least show where when all you have is a new story showing the effects of a crime doesn’t mean you now have all the conclusive evidence of who committed the crime.
Again, if a burning cross showed up in a black family's lawn, I doubt you would have run through your scenario in your head, or demand the sort of "proof" that you now demand must be had when graffiti is tagged proclaiming the perpetrator.

What would be the purpose of a non-MS-13er "setting up" the MS-13 gang? To make them look bad? Damage their stellar reputation?
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