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View Poll Results: which of the following describes you:
I'm liberal, I believe the law of demand generally holds. 5 13.51%
I'm liberal, the law of demand holds with regard to tobacco taxes, but not with regard to the minimum wage. 0 0%
conservative, believe that the law of demand generally holds. 16 43.24%
None of the above. 16 43.24%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-06-2014, 02:04 AM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,074 posts, read 10,704,652 times
Reputation: 8798

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Eschew obfuscation. bUU doesn't understand that. He (?) is so enamored of the words he uses that he loses sight of his goals. So most people that aren't obsessed with their righteousness finish his paragraphs without remembering the beginning.
In other words, people who defend callous disregard for others know what is considered offensive about their preferences and aren't going to change their mind regardless. That's clear, just as it is clear those who favor factoring more important considerations, such as human decency, into such matters aren't going to change their minds. So the point of discussion is to present clear choices for those who aren't the ones taking strong stands. The fact that you see fit to comment about the comments of someone you disagree with means your comments in that regard are without merit. Of course you will say anything to try to defend your personal preference - you're a partisan. The fact that you waste time trying to change the minds of people who already are confident in their disagreement with you, rather than trying to defend your perspective to those who are so unsure that they're not participating in the discussion, is - what's the term? - oh yeah:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Big fail.
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Old 11-06-2014, 02:23 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,886,908 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Supply and demand is a model.
False.
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Old 11-06-2014, 03:05 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,455,098 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Good post. But no I don't believe that minimum wage increases are necessary in the face of inflation. The market will force wage increases in response to inflation. It always has. My father made about $20K as a civil engineer when I was a kid in the 60's and 70's. Today the median salary of a civil engineer is $79K, according to the BLS. The minimum wage had nothing to do with it; supply and demand had everything to do with it.

If inflation necessitates a price control for labor, why not for other goods and services? Why not a minimum price for gas, asparagus, or slurpees? Inflation is a phenomenon of money supply and boosts the price of everything, whether low skilled labor or slurpees.

Why would inflation lead to wage increases when there is a huge surplus of low-skill workers, e.g. illegal immigrants and unemployed teens? There are millions of teens available to work and supply is ample for the foreseeable future.
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Old 11-06-2014, 03:13 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,455,098 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom View Post
Why is it that every proponent of increasing the federal minimum wage makes the automatic assumption that doing so will increase the buying power of minimum wage earners, even though historically that is not the case? Increasing the federal minimum wage has never resulted in a long term change in lifestyle for minimum wage earners, yet suddenly doing so is going to improve their buying power? Talk about insanity...

I do not make such an assumption. Inflation naturally erodes the buying power of minmum wage workers. Increasing the minimum wage ONLY restores SOME of the purchasing power lost to inflation. Raising the minimum wage is like playing catchup on a treadmill on which you are always losing ground.
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Old 11-06-2014, 03:42 AM
 
5,365 posts, read 6,336,999 times
Reputation: 3360
I'm liberal. The law of supply and demand generally holds, but some things completely break it, like healthcare needs.
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Old 11-06-2014, 10:49 AM
 
4,873 posts, read 3,601,591 times
Reputation: 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
False.
If you're going to deny reality so conclusively then there's really no point in discussion, is there?
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,358,834 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Why would inflation lead to wage increases when there is a huge surplus of low-skill workers, e.g. illegal immigrants and unemployed teens? There are millions of teens available to work and supply is ample for the foreseeable future.
All other things being equal, inflation would bring wage increases. Inflation means general price increases, and a wage rate is just the price of labor.

If there is an influx of low-skill workers from immigration, that would mean a shift in the supply curve to the right, and a drop in wage rates (see the video). So you have two separate forces here, one pushing wages up, and another pushing them down. The outcome will vary according to how great the inflation is, and how great the increased supply of low skill workers is.
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Old 11-06-2014, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,844,821 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
All other things being equal, inflation would bring wage increases. Inflation means general price increases, and a wage rate is just the price of labor.

If there is an influx of low-skill workers from immigration, that would mean a shift in the supply curve to the right, and a drop in wage rates (see the video). So you have two separate forces here, one pushing wages up, and another pushing them down. The outcome will vary according to how great the inflation is, and how great the increased supply of low skill workers is.
Does the video ever acknowledge that either the demand or supply curve can shift? I don't recall seeing that. The video from what I recall assumes the potential pool of workers is static as is the level of demand for workers.
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Old 11-12-2014, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,358,834 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
Does the video ever acknowledge that either the demand or supply curve can shift? I don't recall seeing that. The video from what I recall assumes the potential pool of workers is static as is the level of demand for workers.
Supply Demand analysis gives a snapshot in time. If the pool of workers changes, it's time to draw a new graph. This does not affect the results of the minimum wage analysis as given in the video.
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:27 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,526,388 times
Reputation: 2052
The OP is fatally flawed. It compares two markets which behave very differently. Tobacco is a consumer end-product. Minimum wage labor is a link in the supply chain. If you understand economics as you claim, OP, you surely know that demand for minimum wage labor comes from consumers, not business owners.
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