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View Poll Results: which of the following describes you:
I'm liberal, I believe the law of demand generally holds. 5 13.51%
I'm liberal, the law of demand holds with regard to tobacco taxes, but not with regard to the minimum wage. 0 0%
conservative, believe that the law of demand generally holds. 16 43.24%
None of the above. 16 43.24%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-31-2014, 08:02 AM
 
46,267 posts, read 27,088,282 times
Reputation: 11120

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sxrckr View Post
In other words, you won't answer the questions because you don't like them.

This is almost as hilarious as these congressional candidates who can't answer a simple "yes or no" question on if they voted for Obama.
Yep, but I have enough fun for today, if I laugh any harder, people are going to tell me to leave and go home for the day.......

I'm sure I'll be told how immoral I am (more than what has already been said), I don't like people, blah blah blah...in the end I know the truth, I don't sit behind the comptuer telling people how the suck by using big words...

Have a great day.... think you are better than others bUU...you are not...no matter how many big words you use...
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Old 10-31-2014, 08:02 AM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,337,915 times
Reputation: 11538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post

I don't think there should be a minimum wage. JMO.
I agree.

Why should a good worker not be able to get a raise????

Everyone should not be paid the same for the same job.
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Old 10-31-2014, 08:02 AM
 
30,063 posts, read 18,660,332 times
Reputation: 20880
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
All of the questions are basically demographic issues conflated with correlation/causation fallacies. Except the first one, that's also explained by the second one. Dumb Republicans give more money to televangelist "charities", good for them.

Basically the answer to all of these questions is "people with more money vote Republican".

So "more money" explains-

1. lower crime rates

2. lower levels of infidelity

3. greater levels of volunteerism?


I can see your "argument" for charity, however this has been dispelled and noted that conservatives still give more than liberals to charity, EVEN AMONG SIMILAR ECONOMIC LEVELS.

Crime is definately more prevalent among the poor. But why is it, that EVEN WHEN CONTROLLED FOR ECONOMIC LEVELS, there is more gun violence and crime among democrats vs republicans?


These are very puzzling issues. I always find it amusing when one claims the moral high ground in any argument. The fact of the matter is that we have all screwed up and are sinners and that (to borrow from Weird Al) one is not more "humble" than the next. Libs seem to think that they "care" more about their fellow man, but reality shows this contention is just not true.
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Old 10-31-2014, 08:03 AM
 
30,063 posts, read 18,660,332 times
Reputation: 20880
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Clearly you'll post anything to try to assuage the feeling you experience in response to seeing the corrupt perspective you prefer condemned. It's sad that you cannot admit its failings and instead try to use feigned inability to comprehend standard, well-constructed English. Your use of such nonsensical deception, which is fooling no one, just compounds the condemnation of your perspective.

This is good advice. People who are intent on refusing to acknowledge moral repudiation for the corruption they prefer are better off ignoring it than lamely trying to deflect attention from it, since each such deflection just underscores the original corruption they're trying to defend.

Pretty much. Right-wingers like to take pride in their self-centered efforts to make it look like they're being moral, but when it comes down to brass tacks when something is expected of them because they're part of a society and there are those in society who are in greater risk than they are, their true, self-centered nature comes through. The simple failure to prioritize the basic needs of others is the most glaring example of the corruption I refer to.

"Assauage"- that is a good word and one of my favorites. Looks like you have plenty of good book learnin'. "Repudiation" is another good word, but simply does not stack up to "assuage".
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Old 10-31-2014, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,159,948 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post

Here's an article from a couple days ago that in essence says, the law of demand works. An army of guys in white coats, with billions in federal grants, have determined that as the price of cigs goes up, the quantity of cigs smoked goes down.
Want people to drink less? Make their cigarettes more expensive - The Washington Post

Almost giddy with this new-found knowledge, the WaPo suggests that tobacco tax hikes are in order:



If you remember your econ 101, you know that the same applies to labor and the minimum wage. As the price of labor goes up, the quantity of labor demanded by employers goes down. Here's a 2 minute video showing how this plays out in terms of supply/demand:


How to draw minimum wage on a supply and demand graph - YouTube

Yet in discussions of the minimum wage, liberals always assure us that, no, minimum wage laws do not cause job loss or unemployment. Well clearly they do if you believe that the law of demand works. Unless, as the above video points out, the law sets the minimum wage at or below the market wage. In which case the minimum wage law is unnecessary, and a waste ink and paper.

Please explain, liberals. How is it that the law of demand works when it comes to a discussion of raising sin taxes, but not when it comes to a discussion of the minimum wage?
Good job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
The law of S&D isn't manipulated anymore than an airplane manipulates the law of gravity. The government exerts an outside force on a system operating uner the law of supply & demand, but the law itself goes unchanged. Once the outside force changes or goes away, the havoc wreaking is simply the law of supply & demand letting you know that it never went anywhere.

Say a 747 is at 35,000 feet and it runs out of gas. At that point, gravity will remind everyone onboard that it never went anywhere, never changed, and the havoc that is imminent....yeah, that's simply being unprepared for loss of outside force in a universe where gravity went unchanged.

That's all that happens with these random economic "tragedies" where havoc occurs. The laws of economics stay right where they are and they eventually remind everyone of that fact when outside manipulation goes away.
Exactly.

I think one of the problems is flawed Human Nature -- the desire to control everything, and worse, the belief that Humans really do have control.

Control is elusive and illusory. Worse than that, it wastes a lot of Capital.

It's important to differentiate between that which you can control and that which you cannot; that which you can influence and that which you cannot, and that which you can neither control nor influence.

The Perfect Economy is like a Perpetual Motion Machine -- both are non-existent.

So what's the point?

Like CAFE standards -- achieve maximum possible efficiency.

Every System bleeds Energy just as every Economy bleeds Capital.

The goal is to minimize the waste of Capital and use Capital as efficiently as possible. Only then will the greatest number of people derive the greatest good and benefit.

To that end, you can have regulations in a Free Market, with the purpose of those regulations to prevent the waste of Capital, which is usually caused by persons or groups interfering in the Market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Even many conservatives I talk to say they believe that the minimum wage should be tied to the rate of inflation. Up or down, with the economy.
That's because they don't understand Economics.

I guess it's a good thing Liberals forced Economics out of high school curricula in the 1960s.

Discussing...

Mircea
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Old 10-31-2014, 08:58 AM
Status: "everybody getting reported now.." (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,549 posts, read 16,536,658 times
Reputation: 6032
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post

Yet in discussions of the minimum wage, liberals always assure us that, no, minimum wage laws do not cause job loss or unemployment. Well clearly they do if you believe that the law of demand works. Unless, as the above video points out, the law sets the minimum wage at or below the market wage. In which case the minimum wage law is unnecessary, and a waste ink and paper.

Please explain, liberals. How is it that the law of demand works when it comes to a discussion of raising sin taxes, but not when it comes to a discussion of the minimum wage?
Thats easy, you are falsely assuming the minimum wage is already above the market wage.

Market wage is your term not mine.


I simply put forth the theory that we havent met the market wage yet, which negates your entire argument


thread closed.
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Old 10-31-2014, 09:00 AM
Status: "everybody getting reported now.." (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,549 posts, read 16,536,658 times
Reputation: 6032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post



That's because they don't understand Economics.

I guess it's a good thing Liberals forced Economics out of high school curricula in the 1960s.

Discussing...

Mircea
Pretty sure I took economics my senior year in high school, and that was only 5 years ago.
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Old 10-31-2014, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,844,197 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post

Here's an article from a couple days ago that in essence says, the law of demand works. An army of guys in white coats, with billions in federal grants, have determined that as the price of cigs goes up, the quantity of cigs smoked goes down.
Want people to drink less? Make their cigarettes more expensive - The Washington Post

Almost giddy with this new-found knowledge, the WaPo suggests that tobacco tax hikes are in order:



If you remember your econ 101, you know that the same applies to labor and the minimum wage. As the price of labor goes up, the quantity of labor demanded by employers goes down. Here's a 2 minute video showing how this plays out in terms of supply/demand:


How to draw minimum wage on a supply and demand graph - YouTube

Yet in discussions of the minimum wage, liberals always assure us that, no, minimum wage laws do not cause job loss or unemployment. Well clearly they do if you believe that the law of demand works. Unless, as the above video points out, the law sets the minimum wage at or below the market wage. In which case the minimum wage law is unnecessary, and a waste ink and paper.

Please explain, liberals. How is it that the law of demand works when it comes to a discussion of raising sin taxes, but not when it comes to a discussion of the minimum wage?
Now draw a demand line parallel and to the right of the original demand line. This new demand line represents the demand for labor which is the result of increased consumption driven by labors increased wages.

Yes I believe in supply and demand, but economic models, although built on simple concepts, are way more complex then can be covered in a 2 minutes video.
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Old 10-31-2014, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,159,948 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-R-B View Post
In my personal experience....
Anecdotal Evidence
This is fallacious generalizing on the basis of a some story that provides an inadequate sample.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-R-B View Post
Most conservatives believe supply and demand is something that should never be questioned....
Right....one bushel of grain....1,000 people.

It'll be amusing how you dance around that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-R-B View Post
But what about the popular and often repeated " tax cuts for job creators will create more jobs"????

Seems to go against that theory doesn't it?

If supply and demand is not to be questioned, than tax breaks won't create any hiring....

DEMAND FOR THE PRODUCT/SERVICE DOES.
Demand requires Capital.

From where does the Capital come?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-R-B View Post
If you own a business and have enough employees to keep up with the work load than why on earth would you hire more people with your "tax break" when the demand for your products and services hasn't increased?
Gosh....it would be so freaking stupid and silly of me to use the tax break to hire a Marketing and Advertising firm to help me expand into a new market to increase demand, so that I can hire more employees.

I can't help but notice that a lot of people's thinking is purely one-dimensional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Isn't the economy's big problem a lack of high-paying jobs?
Yeah, and people just like yourself created the mess you're in.

Why aren't you in your 5th Level Economy?

Oh, well, that's because Liberals totally destroyed the public education system.

People wasting Guaranteed Student Loans majoring in "The Influence of Transvestite Lesbian Midgets on Cuisine in the Early Hittite Empire" is not going to research or develop squat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
We should pass a law limiting CEO wages to $100k p.a., then lots more folks will become CEOs and make good money. Or does overly-simplistic, childish understandings of supply and demand only apply to minimum wage workers?
Um, CEOs are paid so well due to the fact that very few people have the skill or talent, but demand for such persons is high.

The demand for CEOs is so high, that American shareholders will tolerate a foreign-born foreign citizen as CEO of a US company.

Obviously, you're not a CEO....you're not jealous or envious, are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gen811 View Post
where is
moderate
libertarian
constitutionalist
independent
etc

come on now.
Come on what?

Everyone is Left or Right of Center....

Mircea
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Old 10-31-2014, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,159,948 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
One of the hallmark characteristics of right-wing perspective is the dumbing down of all issues to insulate themselves from having to deal with the truth that reality is not as clear-cut and as simplistic as their avaricious and self-centered attitudes would wish them to be.
One bushel of wheat....1,000 people....lot of that going around lately in some counties.

Have at it.

Show us how Moral you are.

Go ahead.....apply your vacuous nonsense and prove to everyone how superior it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
My post was clear and concise. You and your buddies are just mad that it was so tightly constructed that you couldn't use the typical superficial nonsense to try to refute what I wrote.
What you wrote is easily refuted due to the fact that it is entirely subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
And indeed yes I am revealing my morality through the perspectives I express...
Slavery.

According to you moral perspective, our purpose on this Earth is to be slaves in your service and do whatever you tell us to do without question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee View Post
bUU...how and why do you support a person with such low morality?
Ooops....

What did you expect?

uBB hypocritically driving down the road in an SUV wasting fuel, "Ugh, I sharted.....I'm vulnerable in society...it's my right to go to the Emergency Room and have this checked out unnecessarily wasting and consuming resources --- denying others use of those resources -- so that I feel good.....which is the only important thing in the whole big wide world."

Amused....

Mircea
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