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The US is a country of immigrants, it's population is of immigrant descent, a longtime ago there was no legal or illegal immigrants, whoever showed up at the border was welcome.
That's your opinion, many will disagree with you on that.
It's not about legal or illegal, it's about the language spoken in California and nothing else.
No, we are no longer a nation of immigrants but a nation of Americans. We still allow in immigrants but our citizen population way outnumbers our immigrant population.
We have had to change our immigration laws and policies over the years with our growing population. We cannot allow in anyone who wants to come here now without harming our own citizens.
No, this topic is about Reconquista not languages. However, it is the Reconquista types that want to take over Calif. and other southwestern states which would include demanding that Spanish takes its place right along with English. 85% of Americans speak English. We should adopt Spanish when only 15% are Spanish speakers only?
Even the American Indians had THEIR share of nasty wars up to and including genocide between the different tribes. Too; they're also "immigrants" using YOUR opinion because they started out in Africa like the rest of us humans. Sheesh!
Did not talk about Indians wars ? I've never heard about that , do you have a link or a source ?
So you're saying that the Native Americans came from Africa ?
Yes ,If you go back to ice age or something like that but it doesn't make your point.
No, we are no longer a nation of immigrants but a nation of Americans. We still allow in immigrants but our citizen population way outnumbers our immigrant population.
We have had to change our immigration laws and policies over the years with our growing population. We cannot allow in anyone who wants to come here now without harming our own citizens.
No, this topic is about Reconquista not languages. However, it is the Reconquista types that want to take over Calif. and other southwestern states which would include demanding that Spanish takes its place right along with English. 85% of Americans speak English. We should adopt Spanish when only 15% are Spanish speakers only?
We're already talked about this, we have two different vision of the issue, if we can't agree, let's leave it there.
When I talk about immigrant it is by opposition to the Native Americans who are the original inhabitants of this country.
So we're all immigrants in some ways or descendent of immigrants if you will.
As I said again, we're talking about the specific state of California, I think the Hispanics represent the most important immigrants population in this state.
In California, Spanish may not be the official language but Spanish is the facto the 2nd spoken language of the State.
Not talking about illegal immigration, talking about the legal residents of California.
Who the hell cares where our ancestors originated from? It's irrelevant. If you were born here you are a citizen not an immigrant. As for the so-called Native Americans even their ancestors originated somewhere else. They didn't just grow up out of the ground like corn. First didn't mean squat back then. This continent/country was a New World and everyone had a right to migrate here until governments and country bounderies were established.
Why do you say that Hispanics represent important immigrants in this state? Most Hispanic-Americans are bi-lingual and many of them don't even speak Spanish anymore. We already have our common language of English to communicate with them in. Californians decided that English would be their official language. Don't like it, too bad. For someone who claims not to be able to speak Spanish just what is your agenda then?
Thanks, that's a wise approach, English is mandatory in every school in the US, so all immigrants have to learn English but learning another language, in this case Spanish would benefit the American society in general and in business in particular .
I'm not a Spanish speaker but I'm sure some schools in the west do.
It would benefit us how? 85% of Americans speak English.
Those who worked on the assembly lines in Detroit and in the steel mills of Pittsburgh thought as you did.
That's what makes this argument so fascinating: your attitude here is straight out of the mainstream liberal playbook despite the fact you're arguing a mainstream conservative POV.
This is what happens when you buy into this game of D vs R and government as a legit entity in general.
Here's a secret for you: I have no doubt you and/or people like yourself came to California and played by the rules. You did nothing "wrong". All you've ever done was contribute to society, pay taxes, stay relatively clear of the law, and tried not to burden others.
Then over the years a situation developed (cheap labor needs) where illegal and legal immigrants alike flocked to the state. The rules were altered mid-game on you...or towards the end depending on your age.
I'm vindicating you here in this dynamic.
But here's the kicker...are you really this gullible? I mean...did you think the government was not going to exploit you because you paid your extortion (taxes) money for years?
As a mainstream conservative I'm sure you'd blame the unions and the Dems for the plight of Rust Belt. I grew up there and can tell you without a doubt that angle has much merit. But again, not everyone was a lazy feeder off union protection. When in it went bad it went bad for everyone.
It's this whole pitting of one side against the other that must stop. You got screwed. I know it. But it was the government that did it...not the "other side" (insert D or R in various situations in our history).
You played by the rules. But they were the rules of a criminal, immoral gang known as the government.
The problem isn't this fake paradigm of competing ideologies. It's the fact that people, for whatever reason, believe that paying extortion money to a gang gives them infinite immunity to the whims of said gang.
It's like a little kid paying a bully each day at school so he won't get beat up. Then one day the bully raises the fee a dollar. As the bullied kid our collective reaction is "Hey, that's not fair! You don't have the right to raise the amount of money you're extorting from me!"
See how much sense that makes? Nobody has the right to extort you in the first place!!!
That's my take in a nutshell. Improve your life. Keep your nose clean. Avoid interaction with the government as much as possible (nobody drives thru gangland on purpose and that is the EXACT equivalent). Don't blame others who seemingly benefit from whatever shift in policy the head gangsters decide to implement. Blame the actual gangsters.
You always have a very well reasoned argument regarding this and I appreciate it. And I understand what you are saying. But this is, in a nutshell as you say, the reason why so many people are disgusted. So many people played by the rules whether they were actual laws or just societal norms. The government only enforces those laws that they deem relevant, as an adult I understand that. But that doesn't curb the resentment people have. You seem to realize this is indeed a political game, its the people who think that this is just the way things are and "whats the big deal?" that I find to be dumber than dirt.
It would save a bunch of money on printing government documents in several languages.
No more would you hear, "press 1 for English".
I have to laugh at those who use the Native American argument in defense of Spanish. The so-called Native Americans didn't even speak Spanish until the Spanish arrived here just like the English, etc. did. Our country decided to make English our de facto national language and 85% of Americans speak it. The topic is about Calif. but even here English is the "official" language of our state.
Did not talk about Indians wars ? I've never heard about that , do you have a link or a source ?
So you're saying that the Native Americans came from Africa ?
Yes ,If you go back to ice age or something like that but it doesn't make your point.
I have to laugh at those who use the Native American argument in defense of Spanish. The so-called Native Americans didn't even speak Spanish until the Spanish arrived here just like the English, etc. did. Our country decided to make English our de facto national language and 85% of Americans speak it. The topic is about Calif. but even here English is the "official" language of our state.
I guess some people actually think the Spanish language originated in the US southwest.
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