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Old 11-14-2014, 09:21 AM
 
7,846 posts, read 6,403,886 times
Reputation: 4025

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss View Post
So the way to get the debt down is to get the deficit down first. You cannot pay back debt without enough revenue to cover the total expenses. Each time a Govt (State or Federal) says that oh that shortfall is being covered by reserves or is being covered by bonds, creates new debt.
The terms being used in this thread are starting to go off the deep end with end of worlders showing up to convince themselves they are right to be living in their basements.

The debt can be brought down. It takes an excess of revenue to be able to repay. No politician will say that as the top 1% do not want to pay back the money they have made since the 2008-2009 depression.

Taxes need to rise for the upper brackets, new brackets need to be created, as high as 10 billion $. The average earnings have only gone up in certain areas of the economy, those which have benifited the most should be paying more in taxes. They could go as high as 75% for a decade on the top brackets
If you read the OP, you would know why every surplus has led to a recession.

Federal Balance = Private Sector Balance + Foreign Sector Balance

To reduce the Public Sector Debt (Federal Balance), the Private Sector has to shift more tax revenue back to the public sector than it receives. This would drain the Private Sector Balance.

Here is a visual representation.
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Old 11-14-2014, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,884 posts, read 10,972,072 times
Reputation: 14180
The bottom line is, monetary value is all chicanery, smoke, and mirrors.
The currency of the United States is based purely on the full faith and credit of the United States. That dollar bill in your pocket is worth a dollar because the government says it is. The actual BUYING power of that dollar is steadily going down. It has nowhere near the actual buying power it had in, oh, let's say, 1950.
When the rest of the world loses faith in the dollar, and stops the credit of the United States, we will be in big trouble.
Sure, the United States has sovereignty over its money supply, and it can print as much as it wants. BUT, if nobody WANTS that money, it immediately becomes just so much wallpaper!
COULD that happen? Of course it could.
WILL it happen? Nobody knows. A lot of people are buying gold, silver, platinum, palladium, and gems just in case.
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Old 11-14-2014, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,020 posts, read 14,198,297 times
Reputation: 16747
Opinions are opinions.
Facts are facts.

There have been no dollars in circulation since 1933.

Dollar bills are not dollars. Federal Reserve NOTES are IOUs, not receipts, not "backed" by anything, and unredeemable since 1933.

Since silver was demonetized in the Coinage Act of 1873, and all gold money was confiscated (stolen?) by executive order, in 1933, there has been no lawful money in circulation since 1933.

The question that is never raised : Who are the obligated parties on those worthless notes?

..................................
See:
USCON 1787
Coinage Act of 1792
Coinage Act of 1873
Federal Reserve Act of 1913
Title 12 USC Sec. 411
House Joint Resolution 192, June 1933
Gold Reserve Act of 1934
Federal Insurance Contributions Act of 1935
http://bestamericangold.com/goldconfiscation1933.html


BTW - CONgress has no power to create money. It has the power to coin money (stamp bullion) and to borrow money. IF CONgress did have the power to create money, why would it need to BORROW it? (see: Art 1, Sec 8, and Sec 10, USCON)

Now, ask yourself, WHO has the power to create the medium of exchange, if not the U.S. government?
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Old 11-14-2014, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Oceania
8,610 posts, read 7,891,953 times
Reputation: 8318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Not all monies. Most moneys. There are some sequestered programs/funds. Like the highway fund. But even that has been raided by the general fund.

The supposed "highway fund" is a neat column on a spreadsheet but all monies are part of the general fund. How do you suppose they - federal government - pulls XXX $T out of thin air to send, fund or spend? It's as if it is one big wallet they stick their fat hands into on a regular basis.
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Old 11-14-2014, 10:19 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,096,009 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
It has a limitless trust fund. It issues currency at will.
Argentina, Iceland, Mexico, Russia, and the Roman empire all went bankrupt
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Old 11-14-2014, 10:21 AM
 
18,801 posts, read 8,467,936 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Opinions are opinions.
Facts are facts.

There have been no dollars in circulation since 1933.

Dollar bills are not dollars. Federal Reserve NOTES are IOUs, not receipts, not "backed" by anything, and unredeemable since 1933.

Since silver was demonetized in the Coinage Act of 1873, and all gold money was confiscated (stolen?) by executive order, in 1933, there has been no lawful money in circulation since 1933.

The question that is never raised : Who are the obligated parties on those worthless notes?

..................................
See:
USCON 1787
Coinage Act of 1792
Coinage Act of 1873
Federal Reserve Act of 1913
Title 12 USC Sec. 411
House Joint Resolution 192, June 1933
Gold Reserve Act of 1934
Federal Insurance Contributions Act of 1935
U.S. Gold Coin and Bullion Confiscation (Recall) of April 5th, 1933


BTW - CONgress has no power to create money. It has the power to coin money (stamp bullion) and to borrow money. IF CONgress did have the power to create money, why would it need to BORROW it? (see: Art 1, Sec 8, and Sec 10, USCON)

Now, ask yourself, WHO has the power to create the medium of exchange, if not the U.S. government?
Congress can in essence create money via the Treasury and deficit spending.
Coinage is part of the Executive/Treasury.
The Fed can of course create money from thin air.
Most of our money is created via the private banks and lending.

We 'borrow' money and create money debt vs creating the money de novo due to our laws.
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Old 11-14-2014, 10:21 AM
 
7,846 posts, read 6,403,886 times
Reputation: 4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
The bottom line is, monetary value is all chicanery, smoke, and mirrors.
The currency of the United States is based purely on the full faith and credit of the United States. That dollar bill in your pocket is worth a dollar because the government says it is. The actual BUYING power of that dollar is steadily going down. It has nowhere near the actual buying power it had in, oh, let's say, 1950.
When the rest of the world loses faith in the dollar, and stops the credit of the United States, we will be in big trouble.
Sure, the United States has sovereignty over its money supply, and it can print as much as it wants. BUT, if nobody WANTS that money, it immediately becomes just so much wallpaper!
COULD that happen? Of course it could.
WILL it happen? Nobody knows. A lot of people are buying gold, silver, platinum, palladium, and gems just in case.
Correct, for the first half of your post.

EXCEPT, the dollar's "faith" on the international market is relative. It has nothing to do with our ability to issue more credit. If nobody wants the money, it still has no bearing on our ability to issue more credit on the domestic market. Our government also frequently buys its own securities.

No amount of printing will change the U.S. from being monetarily sovereign.

People buying gold and precious metals are economically ignorant. Precious metals are useless. If you have no faith in the U.S. dollar, at least invest in a precious resource like oil.

On the issue of "buying power;" it is all relative. A $1 now being worth a fraction of what it was in the past is meaningless. What determines your buying power is your own wealth and income relative to the rest of the citizens in your country and the world. "Wealth" is relative. Money is just a point system.
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Old 11-14-2014, 10:24 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,096,009 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
If you read the OP, you would know why every surplus has led to a recession.
What utter bull ****...

The "surpluses" from 1998 to 2001 held a booming economy.. Thats how they create the dam surplus.

Tell me how more people working, thus reducing programs like welfare, and increasing tax revenues because people have paychecks, create recessions..

Do you even think?
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Old 11-14-2014, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,922 posts, read 2,778,042 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
It's beein going on for decades. We have been a "ticking time bomb" for decades. Today, at least 99% of Americans are still ignorant (whether or not the choose to be) to the meaning of public debt and its implications.

Let's clear the air:.

1) The United States is monetarily sovereign.

Sovereign
adj. holding supreme power to govern

Canada, Japan, Australia, the UK... they are also monetarily sovereign.

The U.S. makes all rules regarding the U.S. dollar. No other country or individual has any effect on the U.S.'s ability to issue or make laws regarding U.S. dollars. China does not control U.S. dollars. Investors do not control U.S. dollars.

Even if the United States had $1,000 trillion in debt, it would have no bearing on the ability to issue U.S. dollars. This is an undisputed fact.

2) Households, businesses, cities, and states are NOT monetarily sovereign. This also includes Eurozone countries. You have to borrow money. You don't have the authority to issue U.S. dollars. You can only spend what you can earn and borrow.

3) The United States become divorced from gold in 1971. Therefore, all U.S. dollars are not "backed" by gold. They are backed by "full faith and credit."

4) The only constraint to the U.S. government's spending ability is runaway inflation. This includes inflation that cannot be cured through raising interest rates. Since 1971, there has been no link between "printing money" (i.e. spending) and inflation. Inflation is closely correlated to oil & energy prices.

5) The United States cannot default unless it chooses to. No authority can "force" the United States into default.

6) All U.S. government agencies are funded by the government, therefore cannot be insolvent. Social Security cannot be insolvent. Taxation does not fund government services.

7) The United States creates currency by spending money. The federal deficit is the amount of currency created (spending) minus the amount of currency destroyed (taxing). This process is done through the banks. We have run deficits almost every year for over 200 years.

8) National "debt" is the running count of Federal deficits. It is an accounting notation. It isn't a mortgage or a credit card.

Takeaways:

The following formulas can be verified at your discretion (do the research):





Stop the fearmongering! The "debt bomb" is rhetoric used for manipulation.
State level government is just the fed's little sibling. If all the BS you spewed up above was true, why is California having so much trouble? Perhaps they should raise taxes?
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Old 11-14-2014, 10:26 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,096,009 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Congress can in essence create money via the Treasury and deficit spending.
yes, they can create money, but the minute investors dont buy the treasury debt used to create the money, we're bankrupt.
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