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I agree. I'm not saying we can't learn from others including the Europeans but they can also learn from us. I do like the public transit systems in Europe. But I also love driving my BMW 750 in the wide open USA.
One big difference is the legality of guns in the USA. I personally like this because it ultimately means we can never be taken over by our government or another power without very serious consequences. There is a price of more murders when you have the availability of guns but I bet the Jews in Germany wished they didn't give up their guns. I also like the basic foundation of the USA that our government is subservient to the people...which I think has been one of the secrets of our unparalleled success for over 200 years.
I actually agree, Tall. I think Europeans can learn a lot from us. They can also learn a lot from each other and other nations too. In the US, because we're relatively isolated geographically and because we are very successful, I think we tend to forget that we can learn from other nations too. It's a shame working class Americans weren't more familiar with how workers live over here. They'd see for themselves how much higher their quality of life could be if voted for a party (which would be left of the Democratic party on economic issues) that insisted on higher wages, better public infrastructure and a stronger social safety net.
WW 2 with Hitler and his Holocaust. The Serbs and Bosnians treating each other like crap 20 years ago and so on. ALL of the people involved; even the dark skin Gypsies, would be counted as "anglo white" in the US even tho Gypsies are East Indian going by their DNA. I'm talking about situations that happened in the lifetimes of people still alive in 2014.
WW 2 with Hitler and his Holocaust. The Serbs and Bosnians treating each other like crap 20 years ago and so on. ALL of the people involved; even the dark skin Gypsies, would be counted as "anglo white" in the US even tho Gypsies are East Indian going by their DNA. I'm talking about situations that happened in the lifetimes of people still alive in 2014.
I am really addressing the nations that liberals are always claiming are more successful than the US.
Yes they did. PISA releases the USA scores with a racial breakdown and percent of free lunch breakdown to the public. The average test score is below the OECD average, but schools with less than 10% of the students on free lunch programs scored up near Japan's scores. Broken down by race, Asians have the highest score, then whites, then (depending on subject) you have AA's and then Hispanics. If white kids scored as high as Asians the scores would increase overnight, but the average would still be declining because Hispanic scores are so much further behind and they are the growing demographic.
Also, I don't know where you are getting your numbers from. 13% of the US pop is black and about 18% is Hispanic. Kids under 18 are more diverse and only about 46% are white (2010 numbers).
PISA releases the USA scores with a racial breakdown and percent of free lunch breakdown to the public.
I can say this as I'm not up to date on all the info on the matter, but I do have a communicable relations with some of the school administration. I asked: why are many of the black schools failing, or being threatened with being taken over by the State. The (unofficial response I got, not naming names) response I got was; the biggest problem is POVERTY!!! during discussion of Poverty is shared the fact that ... I also photographed homes in some of these areas with under-performing schools, and deteriorated conditions and housing long before I got the answer that poverty was one of the biggest challenges in the schools disparity. The conditions of the housing and communities told me "poverty was a problem" just by looking. It was not even reasonable on a layman term to envisage how a kids come home to these environment and have a mindset to study, not even was some of the places suitable to live in.HUD would have condemned many of these houses as unlivable. This is a condition that surrounds many of the schools (not all) but this conditions is dominant in the very inner city schools and the old communities that have a devastated economy and infrastructure. I was very very disenchanting to see these things. But it is more apparent the effects of poverty on low performing schools.
I asked a second questions: Was there any specific training given to white teacher who had taught predominantly white kids, when they transferred to teach black kids? The answer was some but not enough, and it was a process they were focusing on to help all teachers deal with the learning and living habits of other ethnic groups.
There are many dynamics in this matter, and some presented that I'd never considered to ponder. One items brought to my attention was how the impact of a white male, teaching young black males impacted the self image of the young black males. That is an interesting question. I don't have the answer, but I did hear what was said.
Another matter is, we've seen it and it still exist, some kids are denied lunch if they can't pay, I find this horrible. I've been discussing with some associates at work about setting up a fund, that covers kids lunches when they can't pay. I detest the thought of anyone telling a child they can't have lunch. I would like to go further and have a program that pushes breakfast up to the forefront for students.
Another matter I noticed at many predominant poor black community schools. Some have simply abandoned recess. I've watched kids marched to the lunch room and back to class, I've seen them herded like cattle and made to walk a line to go to their classroom. this was a schools that was trying to get off of the State Control list. They go off the list, but at what cost to the liberties of children?
The campus was run more like a reformatory than a school. I will task anyone, go through a poor community and count the times you see the kids out having recess. count the times you see kids gym class out on the school grounds exercising or playing sports of any type. Culture clubs abandoned and all the activities that contribute to cultural learning and culture buildings, simply vanquished from the programming.
Quote:
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT !!!!
American kids learn by interacting with question and answers, we are a free speech society, (Asian nations are not free speech societies, they follow tradition and instruction, rebuttal or re-address is not the norm in their systems) therefore when you label a kids as bad, because they have a follow up questions, or belittle the kids because they have a follow up questions, that is not the American way. We result to disenchant the child when it comes to learning, because they are reprimanded for inquiry, as if we are a non free thinking and free speaking society.
We are trying to reduce our kids to 'ROTE MEMORY MINIONS", that is an Asian model, because they don't have free speech and they focus on memorization. Our kids focus on who, what, when, where, why and how? We have taken that from them, then we test them on their ability at ROTE MEMORIZATION.
Our kids associate who, what, when, where, why and how, this is how they learn, this is how they relate what is learned to being able to have quality recall. We've taken that from them, so kids loose interest in school, because memorizing a list of things they have not elaborated about, has no significance to the kids, and they see not logic within the process. This is true at the low performing schools and why at our higher performing schools the performance is lower.
Maybe common core can fix the mess we have of pushing this rote memory madness upon the kids, but common core must leave room for kids to "think","relate" and "associate information" to truly understand the elements of who, what, when, where why, and how; When we do this, our American kids will astound the system with their capacity of learning abilities and re-invigorate their want and willingness to embrace learning.
If you note,we have the most rebellious youth than has ever existed in American, because they rebel at the dictations which take away their free thinking, and insult their aims at inquiry, and belittle or label them negatively because they associate point and factors for broader association. they become rebellious, because it has curtailed their creative instincts, and repressed their ingenious American nature of innovative paralleling of pointer, factors and principles). Some will go off and seek ways to show they can think, they can be creative and they can be innovative, sadly they have to do so with a rebellious drive, often outside the classroom.
We can't fairly measure American kids to Asian Kids, they are two different system of interpretation about what learning is and how it is engaged. What we do is destroy the creative association within our kids, and try and turn them into what many Asian countries have been good as, and that is being 'replicators".
Only in latter few decades, have Japan and China and others moved to have more creativity developments comes from their system, but it generally comes from the higher learning levels, far removed from basic education habits. Only when they get to research labs and hands on do they become innovators.
American kids have a history of being innovators based on our older system of teaching but introducing the who, what, when, where and how. Our teachers are frustrated because they can't teach the; who what, when, where and how. They are relegated to rote memory trainer status.
China in 2007-8 realized that high test scores did not translate into higher productivity or higher performance, they found their graduates unable to make independent decisions and project to decipher problems and develop remedies. They looked to the next authority figure, on up and up the line.
On the other hand, American have always been problem solvers, in being so, we were innovators, and creators. We did not move up the ladder asking questions, until we have developed a solution.
Technically, our problem is far less about black or white, its about our system, and its aims to try and measure American kids by a system that is not equal in aim nor function to what is American Educations.
Asian people still want to rush their kids to American University, so they can learn beyond the constraints of Asian higher education. they have to UN-learn the rote memorizing premise and actually know the who, what, when, where and how. They do well, as they've already been trained how to remember and restate, but they become challenged when they have to pursue innovation and be creatives. Not that they can't, it just takes time to unlearn something, and re-learn something in its place.
Quote:
quoting myself
Our problem is we focus on Test Scores for the wrong reasons, Based on a premise that is destined to produce lower scoring. We must realize, American kids will inquire, they will re-inquire and they continue in that cycles and path to understand how things work, why they work, and what is the purposes it can be applied, and where can it be applied and when in the process do they modify and re-structure.
If we don't get back to this, we hurt and damage the youth. How we became a society to try and measure ourselves against a system that is nothing like ours, is a fault of the executive Administrations at the State levels (politicians), and pushing the status of degree fiction where people are too far removed from understanding the realism's of a child.
Great examples is the lack of physical education training: many teachers are older and have long forgotten about exercise and the benefit of sports and what it teaches about teamwork, being in shape and all such things. They even forgot what is the value gained in cultural building programs. Some schools have no art class, they have no debate team, they have no band, they have none of these things which help build a well rounded youth. We got hung up on math and sciences, and ignored the fact that math and sciences is a part of cultural programs, sports programs, and such. We want lecture and lecture followed by lecture trainings. Until we've built a system of regimentation that students detest.
Now go to a Private Church based school, kids get recess, you see them on the grounds playing sports during PE, they have clubs and programs they can join.
Ask yourself, how does University Market itself. It markets the multitude of programs it offers, in culture building categories, it advertises the amenities for sports exercise available and it has a mix between lecture and workshops.
If we don't re-think what we are doing and get back to being Americans in how we do it as American, we will fall further down the performance list. We can't measure apples to oranges and then accept the low rate because of the dis-similarities of our kids.
Last edited by Chance and Change; 11-16-2014 at 08:36 AM..
PISA releases the USA scores with a racial breakdown and percent of free lunch breakdown to the public.
I can say this as I'm not up to date on all the info on the matter, but I do have a communicable relations with some of the school administration. I asked: why are many of the black schools failing, or being threatened with being taken over by the State. The (unofficial response I got, not naming names) response I got was; the biggest problem is POVERTY!!! during discussion of Poverty is shared the fact that ... I also photographed homes in some of these areas with under-performing schools, and deteriorated conditions and housing long before I got the answer that poverty was one of the biggest challenges in the schools disparity. The conditions of the housing and communities told me "poverty was a problem" just by looking. It was not even reasonable on a layman term to envisage how a kids come home to these environment and have a mindset to study, not even was some of the places suitable to live in.HUD would have condemned many of these houses as unlivable. This is a condition that surrounds many of the schools (not all) but this conditions is dominant in the very inner city schools and the old communities that have a devastated economy and infrastructure. I was very very disenchanting to see these things. But it is more apparent the effects of poverty on low performing schools.
I asked a second questions: Was there any specific training given to white teacher who had taught predominantly white kids, when they transferred to teach black kids? The answer was some but not enough, and it was a process they were focusing on to help all teachers deal with the learning and living habits of other ethnic groups.
There are many dynamics in this matter, and some presented that I'd never considered to ponder. One items brought to my attention was how the impact of a white male, teaching young black males impacted the self image of the young black males. That is an interesting question. I don't have the answer, but I did hear what was said.
Another matter is, we've seen it and it still exist, some kids are denied lunch if they can't pay, I find this horrible. I've been discussing with some associates at work about setting up a fund, that covers kids lunches when they can't pay. I detest the thought of anyone telling a child they can't have lunch. I would like to go further and have a program that pushes breakfast up to the forefront for students.
Another matter I noticed at many predominant poor black community schools. Some have simply abandoned recess. I've watched kids marched to the lunch room and back to class, I've seen them herded like cattle and made to walk a line to go to their classroom. this was a schools that was trying to get off of the State Control list. They go off the list, but at what cost to the liberties of children?
The campus was run more like a reformatory than a school. I will task anyone, go through a poor community and count the times you see the kids out having recess. count the times you see kids gym class out on the school grounds exercising or playing sports of any type. Culture clubs abandoned and all the activities that contribute to cultural learning and culture buildings, simply vanquished from the programming.
We can't fairly measure American kids to Asian Kids, they are two different system of interpretation about what learning is and how it is engaged. What we do is destroy the creative association within our kids, and try and turn them into what many Asian countries have been good as, and that is being 'replicators".
Only in latter few decades, have Japan and China and others moved to have more creativity developments comes from their system, but it generally comes from the higher learning levels, far removed from basic education habits. Only when they get to research labs and hands on do they become innovators.
American kids have a history of being innovators based on our older system of teaching but introducing the who, what, when, where and how. Our teachers are frustrated because they can't teach the; who what, when, where and how. They are relegated to rote memory trainer status.
China in 2007-8 realized that high test scores did not translate into higher productivity or higher performance, they found their graduates unable to make independent decisions and project to decipher problems and develop remedies. They looked to the next authority figure, on up and up the line.
On the other hand, American have always been problem solvers, in being so, we were innovators, and creators. We did not move up the ladder asking questions, until we have developed a solution.
Technically, our problem is far less about black or white, its out our system, and its aims to try and measure American kids by a system that is not equal in aim nor function to what is American Educations.
Asian people still want to rush their kids to American University, so they can learn beyond the constraints of Asian higher education. they have to UN-learn the rote memorizing premise and actually know the who, what, when, where and how. They do well, as they've already been trained how to remember and restate, but they become challenged when they have to pursue innovation and be creatives. Not that they can't, it just takes time to unlearn something, and re-learn something in its place.
If we don't get back to this, we hurt and damage the youth. How we became a society to try and measure ourselves against a system that is nothing like ours, is a fault of the executive Administrations at the State levels (politicians), and pushing the status of degree fiction where people are too far removed from understanding the realism's of a child.
Great examples is the lack of physical education training: many teachers are older and have long forgotten about exercise and the benefit of sports and what it teaches about teamwork, being in shape and all such things. They even forgot what is the value gained in cultural building programs. Some schools have no art class, they have no debate team, they have no band, they have none of these things which help build a well rounded youth. We got hung up on math and sciences, and ignored the fact that math and sciences is a part of cultural programs, sports programs, and such. We want lecture and lecture followed by lecture trainings. Until we've built a system of regimentation that students detest.
Now go to a Private Church based school, kids get recess, you see them on the grounds playing sports during PE, they have clubs and programs they can join.
Ask yourself, how does University Market itself. It markets the multitude of programs it offers, in culture building categories, it advertises the amenities for sports exercise available and it has a mix between lecture and workshops.
If we don't re-think what we are doing and get back to being Americans in how we do it as American, we will fall further down the performance list. We can't measure apples to oranges and then accept the low rate because of the dis-similarities of our kids.
How does this long post prove Europe is superior?
"Europe is generally respected for its well-educated youth. The international community views many European education systems as an exemplar of educative best practice – indeed, Norway, Germany, Ireland and France frequently rank among the best education systems in the world. Over six years of economic and financial crisis, however, has resulted in considerable strain on the respective public budgets of European countries.
Between the period of 2008 – 2013, more than a half of European Union countries saw the closure of numerous schools and thousands of teachers have lost jobs while further thousands of recently qualified teachers fail to find employment in their skilled area."
I actually agree, Tall. I think Europeans can learn a lot from us. They can also learn a lot from each other and other nations too. In the US, because we're relatively isolated geographically and because we are very successful, I think we tend to forget that we can learn from other nations too. It's a shame working class Americans weren't more familiar with how workers live over here. They'd see for themselves how much higher their quality of life could be if voted for a party (which would be left of the Democratic party on economic issues) that insisted on higher wages, better public infrastructure and a stronger social safety net.
"Europe's troubles look daunting enough already, but another crisis looms.
Most European Union countries owe more than twice their annual gross domestic product in pensions promised to current workers and retirees. As governments scale back benefits, companies and individuals face a rising burden. But saving for old age could prove a crushing blow to growth."
"Europe is generally respected for its well-educated youth. The international community views many European education systems as an exemplar of educative best practice – indeed, Norway, Germany, Ireland and France frequently rank among the best education systems in the world. Over six years of economic and financial crisis, however, has resulted in considerable strain on the respective public budgets of European countries.
Between the period of 2008 – 2013, more than a half of European Union countries saw the closure of numerous schools and thousands of teachers have lost jobs while further thousands of recently qualified teachers fail to find employment in their skilled area."
Bottom line, Grass is not necessarily greener on the other side.
The post was not to prove Europe was superior, but to discuss the lower rating of the US educational system,which was in response to the quoted lead-in of the post.
I did not question nor challenge Europe in the writing, I was talking about the American Educational System and what impacts its lower rating.
Whether it is or can be above Europe. I did not challenge that point.
If it comes to innovations, I'd like to look at the parallel between the two, but that is another post, I'd like to write on at some point and time. Especially when it comes to the variance within the (level/type of elements) of poverty and how it functions in relation to these nations, might be a matter to investigate for comparative relevancy and the impacts of those relevant discoveries.
Last edited by Chance and Change; 11-16-2014 at 08:41 AM..
well, Those who seek "change" will probably have a more focused desire to live in the land of their dreams.
To me,
America is WAY better if you know how to save and invest. Europeans are probably better for the wage earners, even that is debatable. One thing I do admire Europeans is that Europeans aren't brainwashed with endless propaganda about how they live in a perfect country.
I am glad that OP is happy with his decision and choice with all honesty. But you cannot directly compare Europe and America, different culture, different dynamic, different systems, different life styles.
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