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Old 11-16-2014, 12:10 PM
 
46,943 posts, read 25,964,420 times
Reputation: 29434

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
Let's close all military bases in European countries and let these Europeans worry about their own ass, Let's follow Denmark's immigration law for a change.
Those bases are mainly for the US' logistical benefit these days. The heaviest US ground combat unit in Europe is a Stryker brigade - undoubtedly dedicated and professional warriors, but if faced with heavy armor, they'd last an afternoon. (Yes, there are about 30 Abrams for training purposes at Grafenwöhr, but they're not there as part of an actual fighting unit.)

The days of the Black Horse Cav prepping to fight the 3rd Shock Army at the Fulda Gap are long over. It's supply bases and army hospitals supporting the Middle East operations now.
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Old 11-16-2014, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,879,874 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance and Change View Post
That's a good joke, I'm sure you meant it as a joke, because reality is far different.

Actually corporation takes a great deal from you and when they take it, its gone!!! , it makes you pay higher co-pays for medical, it took away the pension contribution, then it took away the 401k contribution which it used to make you accept the automatic pension contribution would no longer be forthcoming, which use to exist, then it took away giving you anything to put in your 401K except what you contribute from your income. at first the 401K claimed to match dollar for dollar, then it became 25 cent to the dollar.. now its "0" to the dollar. and people accepted it and never knew they were loosing money.

Did they really? First, you are the one responsible for your wages and benefits. If you are not satisfied with what your company pays in wages and benefits go elsewhere. Second, my company matches 100% of the first 3% I invest in my 401k and 50% of the second 3%. My company also pays 85% of my healthcare premiums. My company also pays me wages on top of all that. They do not do this out of the generosity of their little hearts. They do this because that is what it takes to keep their employees working there.

Corporations are responsible to their shareholders. You are responsible for yourself and your family.

My government confiscates a significant percentage of my income and gives it away from everyone to welfare bums to your buddies, the corporation. My government will fine me for possessing an open beer can while driving home from work. My government has thrown a co-worker of mine in jail for simply possessing a small amount of marijuana. In the past my government has enslaved blacks and committed genocide on Native Americans. My government runs up healthcare costs by limiting supply and subsidizing demand and then forces Americans to buy insurance to pay for it.
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Old 11-16-2014, 12:20 PM
 
30,058 posts, read 18,652,475 times
Reputation: 20860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
And a great many other things.




Belgium. All 11 Million people. Wow, that's what, 30 times smaller than the US?

How many carrier battle groups are plying the 7 Seas to protect Belgium's currency?

How many amphibious assault groups are cruising across the 7 Seas to protect Belgium's currency?

Don't you just love how Belgium is neatly packaged as two nations within a State?

When you learn the difference between a homogenous nation and a heterogeneous non-nation, perhaps you can discuss these issues intelligently with the restivus.



Indeed.

How dumb is that?

Maybe the US should become a monarchy...

Mircea
Nicely put, Mircea, once again, bringing common sense to an absurd contention

1. urban planning? Are you kidding? Many of the streets in urban european cities were created happenstance by old cart and oxen roads. There was no planning at all. The concept of "urban planning" began in the 1700s and is best manifest by the initial plans for washington DC.

Getting around in MOST European cities is tough, as their streets are like a maze.

2. Military- agreed. THE US pays for a good deal of European military security. Maybe they should start footing the bill.

3. Transportation- it is easier to ride bikes, walk, and use trains when your population is compact. Try walking to work in the northwestern midwest or the west- it would take all day.

4. Resources- European countries (with a few exceptions) are resource poor, and thus dependent upon other nations. See what happens when Russia "turns off the heater" and holds them hostage for energy.

5. Poor American trade agreements- Europe does not have NAFTA and China trade policies, which Clinton created.

6. Slave trade? Are you kidding? EUROPE, along with Arabs, were the creators of the African slave trade. How "enlightened" was that?
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Old 11-16-2014, 12:20 PM
 
12,997 posts, read 13,638,147 times
Reputation: 11191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Those bases are mainly for the US' logistical benefit these days. The heaviest US ground combat unit in Europe is a Stryker brigade - undoubtedly dedicated and professional warriors, but if faced with heavy armor, they'd last an afternoon. (Yes, there are about 30 Abrams for training purposes at Grafenwöhr, but they're not there as part of an actual fighting unit.)

The days of the Black Horse Cav prepping to fight the 3rd Shock Army at the Fulda Gap are long over. It's supply bases and army hospitals supporting the Middle East operations now.
Actually, the 1-1 CAV is in eastern Europe as we speak with Abrams tanks participating in a 6-month training exercise to reassure NATO allies that the US is fully committed to European stability -- first time since the 90s the US deployed a heavy combat unit on European soil I believe. Top US generals have also been giving speeches for months now stating that no more US troops will be withdrawn from Europe. Western Europe (or more accurately NATO members) have done a good job of outsourcing defense to the US. I agree with Lily on that one.
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Old 11-16-2014, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,879,874 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
Hmm... debatable. When you come companies like Walmart instructing their employees on how to get public subsistence, that' more or less Sam Walton's heirs' hands in your pocket. If Walmart had to pay a subsistence wage, their workers wouldn't need public assistance to survive. Yes, you'd pay more for goods at Walmart, but not as much more as you may think. Prices are higher here in Belgium, but it's not outrageously so. It's a price many would probably gladly pay if they saw the benefits of doing so. It's nice to live in a place that has very little (and literally no visible) poverty.
The solution is not higher wages but elimination of public subsistence. Only liberals use one government program (public subsistence) to justify more government intervention (higher minimum wage). The fact is prices are higher in Belgium and median income is lower.

I'm still moving to Cebu, before I move to Belgium.
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Old 11-16-2014, 12:40 PM
 
5,472 posts, read 3,222,624 times
Reputation: 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
The solution is not higher wages but elimination of public subsistence. Only liberals use one government program (public subsistence) to justify more government intervention (higher minimum wage). The fact is prices are higher in Belgium and median income is lower.

I'm still moving to Cebu, before I move to Belgium.

You need to do some research work, First start with your RED states, those are the ones with the HIGHEST users of public assistance.
While you are grandstanding about what your company pays, it is not a model of what exist in the American Landscape of corporate employees.

Since you don't like American System a move might be in order, be sure to tear up your passport after moving, because there won't be a need to return.
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Old 11-16-2014, 12:41 PM
 
12,997 posts, read 13,638,147 times
Reputation: 11191
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
The solution is not higher wages but elimination of public subsistence. Only liberals use one government program (public subsistence) to justify more government intervention (higher minimum wage). The fact is prices are higher in Belgium and median income is lower.

I'm still moving to Cebu, before I move to Belgium.
You seem to have a strong libertarian bent. That's fine. I don't. I'm a liberal. I define myself as one because I have an idea that puts me far outside of conservative circles in the US but WELL WITHIN the mainstream of western civilization. I think there is a role for government in improving and protecting the quality of life for its citizens. Yes of course governments should establish minimum wages. Low wages pollute a community. If you want to do business in a said community, that community has the right to establish minimum standards for doing so -- good, solid wages should be one of them.

I don't like public subsistence. I'd prefer for people to earn their livings, and for jobs -- all jobs -- to pay enough to maintain a basic standard of living. That's just common sense to me. If someone works for 40 hours a week, he or she should have enough money in the bank for rent, food, clothing and transportation. It's nice to be in a country where the majority of people agree with this (to my mind) very sensible statement. I can tell you from firsthand experience -- it makes for a nicer community.
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Old 11-16-2014, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,879,874 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance and Change View Post
You need to do some research work, First start with your RED states, those are the ones with the HIGHEST users of public assistance.
While you are grandstanding about what your company pays, it is not a model of what exist in the American Landscape of corporate employees.

Since you don't like American System a move might be in order, be sure to tear up your passport after moving, because there won't be a need to return.
You are attacking the American system at least as much as I. Are you bright enough to realize that? Eliminate all federal public assistance programs. No need to start piecemeal.
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Old 11-16-2014, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,879,874 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post

I don't like public subsistence. I'd prefer for people to earn their livings, and for jobs -- all jobs -- to pay enough to maintain a basic standard of living. That's just common sense to me. If someone works for 40 hours a week, he or she should have enough money in the bank for rent, food, clothing and transportation. It's nice to be in a country where the majority of people agree with this (to my mind) very sensible statement. I can tell you from firsthand experience -- it makes for a nicer community.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Now think about this Emma Lazarus poem inscribed on the Statue of Liberty and consider this:

"You can have open borders or you can have a welfare state. You cannot have both." Milton Friedman

I think Friedman is correct. You cannot have both an all encompassing welfare state and liberal immigration policies without harming current citizens. The demographics of the US where two major demographic groups, Hispanics and blacks, strongly trail the majority group in wealth and income create huge stresses on welfare systems. Is there a great difference in income between the average Walloon versus the average Fleming?
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Old 11-16-2014, 01:04 PM
 
5,472 posts, read 3,222,624 times
Reputation: 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
You seem to have a strong libertarian bent. That's fine. I don't. I'm a liberal. I define myself as one because I have an idea that puts me far outside of conservative circles in the US but WELL WITHIN the mainstream of western civilization. I think there is a role for government in improving and protecting the quality of life for its citizens. Yes of course governments should establish minimum wages. Low wages pollute a community. If you want to do business in a said community, that community has the right to establish minimum standards for doing so -- good, solid wages should be one of them.

I don't like public subsistence. I'd prefer for people to earn their livings, and for jobs -- all jobs -- to pay enough to maintain a basic standard of living. That's just common sense to me. If someone works for 40 hours a week, he or she should have enough money in the bank for rent, food, clothing and transportation. It's nice to be in a country where the majority of people agree with this (to my mind) very sensible statement. I can tell you from firsthand experience -- it makes for a nicer community.
Good points, It would be great if industry was still on the soil of American that employed people to make the things we consume. people would be working, business would be functioning well. As many built up American making a 35-65% profit margin, but outsourcing has made the CEO Wealthy and the Corporate Stock Crazy, which decimated the job sector and wage structure. Now everyone wants to make 3000% mark up by peddling foreign goods, and it cost us 10,000+% in losses if not a great deal more, from non funding infrastructure repair needs, to the advent in recent years of whole cities in bankruptcy. Again, Detroit is a glowing example of the results of madness. communities in every city decimated, with broken down abandoned factories where no one was made responsible to clean up the blight. Sub supply chain business which employed 10's of millions, no longer existing, and we bring in 100's of billions of 'disposable goods, clogging up our landfills, and depleting global resources to generate this disposable crap. It cost us 10 time as much for cheap products, you have to repurchase it because its non repairable, its not durable, it takes money out of the community that would otherwise cycle 7 times within a community, it has destroyed the contribution people use to make to civic related programs, and even things like the YWCA in some cities have closed. We now have cities who can't maintain their forestry needs, nor fix their sewer system or their roadways. We have every kind of business with loss ratios that go off the charts, all the while everything transfers off shore, to the tune of more than $30 billion a month with just China, in trade deficits, that means in simple terms, $30 billion a month taken out of the American economy. this is just China, its our #3 trading partner, what about Canada and Mexico, or the multitude of industries sold to foreign entities, where the profit moves offshore instead of circulating in the American economy.

People trapped in public assistance, many don't want to be there, but with the decline in Industry, some have no options out. If they get a minimum wage job, their benefits are cut, so now they can't pay rent and eat. It's a catch 22, that is not a good scenario.
Most people would be more interested in working, than collecting substandard benefits that does not afford them any upward mobility.
If anything, allow people getting benefits to have 24 months of minimum wage earning that is not taxed and a program where they have to save 50%. In two years they are in a far better position. Expand the Tech school creation and programming, and during those 24 months train people in jobs that are designed for the future, not in programs with dead ends.

We have the means, but people must understand there is big profit for the wealthy in public assistance to the poor. It means government grants still go to companies, government loans, and what ever monies that is awarded to public services recipients end up in the hands of the wealthy, via many ways. For every program, there are countless professionals who can and do make 100k salaries to run the programs on the localized level. Imagine the people who got extremely wealthy providing Milk and Cheese, those people never came on the radar as profiteers of the public service programming. there are 1000's of such entities to this very day, who make vast sums of money because of public service programs. Hospitals rip off Medicare like its free money, Tv advertisers trying to lure people to order products so they can bill Medicare. These same people public complain about public service, but they do all they can, to insure they get their paper work in to be considered for government public service contract awards.
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