Universal college education (global warming, weapons, independent, party)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sure it is... if you feel it would be perfectly fine to ignore the Constitution by creating a universal college education program, yet you wish to use it as a basis for your argument on immigration it's rather clear.
I agree it's got nothing to do with this thread... and if you're thinking that I don't understand the situation in which the 14th Amendment was forced upon the states under reconstruction, and how it was arguably never properly introduced nor ratified, and how it's most likely being misinterpreted, you'd be wrong. All I said was that your argument would be taken seriously by more people if you applied the Constitution evenly across all of the issues that you face. If you feel education is important and should be handled at the federal level, it's as simple as saying that you support an amendment to save face.
But I'm not going to clutter up the thread anymore with offtopic rants.
I don't know how you got to where you ended up simply because I stated that I did not support government sponsored education for the children of illegal aliens. My reasoning behind my beliefs is anchored in the abuse of the Fourteenth Amendment.
I think you need to back up a bit. You took this discussion down some strange, twisted road of your own making--simply because I stated thst I believe that the Fourteenth Amendment has become obsolete in the 21st century.
I have said that I do support current programs such as the Pell Grant and BOG waiver for the children of American citizens--taxpayers already support these existing programs. They need to be more accessible for qualifying students, but I would not support further taxation (or any sort of Constitutional amendment) to create yet another bureaucratic behemoth for the government to screw up.
The right to a free education is not guaranteed constitutionally, neither in the U.S. Constitution, nor is guaranteed at state level, at least not by Wyoming's state constitution and I do not support making it so.
Where is it in the Constitution of the United States that provides for the Government - the People, to have to provide for higher education for anyone?
Why should the people of this nation be financially burdened with providing higher education for anyone?
Why should the people of this nation be burdened with ANOTHER layer of government bureaucracy?
The Bush administration has ALREADY given the taxpayer a trillion dollar + burden in order to fund an ideology or creating a democratic state in the Middle East - and that is now playing out in the economy, and will affect Sociaal Security payouts. Is that in the Constitution? Does that better serve our country than further educating them, and making us more competitive on the world stage? Where does the Constitution provide for elective wars?
Most European countries offer free university education for all their citizens and have done for decades ( and many other countries do too). Hardly a revolutionary concept.
I do not believe everybody should go to university but I beleive everyone who deserves to go ( academically) should be able to. At the end of the day the Nation benefits from educated citizens so what is the problem ?
We just need to be very discriminating about who is academically gifted enoughto go and see their education as an investment for the Nation.
I find the Labour Party's idea in the UK that 50%of the population should go to university ludicrous. That is a ridiculous goal. Not every one is academically minded.
For those who are not so academic I would like to see the old fashioned system of technical colleges and apprenticeships return ( also free as WE all benefit from properly trained people).
We need to focus less on the importance of a university education as there is nothing wrong with people being more techincally minded.
We all need carpenters, builders, mechanics, bakers etc... These should be valued as jobs too and treated with respect. We need to reinstate pride in manual jobs.
There seems to be some kind of shame attached to those who do not go to Uni. That to me is a profound error.
Universal University education yes but no reason the pressurise people who are not that way inclined.
The Government's job should be to ensure that all gifts and talents should be catered for ( academic or not) and that kids are directed according tot heir abilities not the size of their pockets.
If you are rich and a moron you should still not be able to go to university and if poor but incredibly talented then likewise you should be deterred from entering academia.
Most European countries offer free university education for all their citizens and have done for decades ( and many other countries do too). Hardly a revolutionary concept.
I do not believe everybody should go to university but I beleive everyone who deserves to go ( academically) should be able to. At the end of the day the Nation benefits from educated citizens so what is the problem ?
We just need to be very discriminating about who is academically gifted enoughto go and see their education as an investment for the Nation.
I find the Labour Party's idea in the UK that 50%of the population should go to university ludicrous. That is a ridiculous goal. Not every one is academically minded.
For those who are not so academic I would like to see the old fashioned system of technical colleges and apprenticeships return ( also free as WE all benefit from properly trained people).
We need to focus less on the importance of a university education as there is nothing wrong with people being more techincally minded.
We all need carpenters, builders, mechanics, bakers etc... These should be valued as jobs too and treated with respect. We need to reinstate pride in manual jobs.
There seems to be some kind of shame attached to those who do not go to Uni. That to me is a profound error.
Universal University education yes but no reason the pressurise people who are not that way inclined.
The Government's job should be to ensure that all gifts and talents should be catered for ( academic or not) and that kids are directed according tot heir abilities not the size of their pockets.
If you are rich and a moron you should still not be able to go to university and if poor but incredibly talented then likewise you should be deterred from entering academia.
I am what is known as a non-traditional student. I went back to school after years in the workforce.
What I found as I sought assistance to finance my college education, is that there is all kinds of grants, scholarships, and even government money available if you are willing to do the footwork to find it, especially if you show that you are willing to work diligently to achieve your degree. I transferred with a 3.903 to my current university and was immediately offered grants based on my GPA.
There is money out there if one is willing to seek it out.
Why wouldn't those on the left be opposed to universal college education and see it as a benefit for the rich? Currently, the poor get help and the others pay.
The point about the war in Iraq is a red herring. Whether you agree with the value of the war or not, national defense is a funtion of the federal government, educating everyone in the nation is not.
I find this poll poorly worded.... its not a case of "every child" but every child with the desire to go, the SAT scores to get in, and the grades to stay in. Whether or not their is some universal obligation to national service is debatable, it would not be a bad thing.
Damned shame we aren't as enlightened as Sweden, who publicly finance their higher education, regardless of race or ability to pay. How very democratic of them. Our sorry-assed congress gives $70B per year in tax giveaways to big oil, but we the people can go to hell, put ourselves in hock for years to pay student loans, etc, and systematically exclude the poor from college based on inability to pay. In my eyes, we fall far short as a nation.
Our emphasis on being CHEAP is biting us in the ass every day as other nations produce FAR MORE scientists, mathematicians and engineers. You can bet your future that CHINA and INDIA are going to clean our clocks unless we get a whole lot smarter as a nation.
As a people, we are divided and conquered by our own politicians. They polarize us with talk about how unfair it us to spend tax money on kids of other races, or kids of the poor, etc. Most of the talk I hear from people against universal college education sounds like sour grapes to me, they aren't smart enough to get in so they want to deny the benefit to as many other people as they can, especially to those who are poor or of other races. It seems that everyone is afraid that somebody else is going to GET something they can't get for themselves, so out come their rationalizations against whatever it is, be it universal college education, affirmative action, etc.
I can only imagine the tragic loss of human potential, and tragic loss of benefit to our nation, that our shortsighted, cheap, mean-spirited attitudes have cost us over the many decades.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.